Horrorwood: True Crime in Tinseltown
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357
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This is his way of of describing the body and notating the bruise.
Kail: And let's just remind everybody again: the body is Marilyn Monroe's body. It sounds so formal when you're saying, like, 'he's going to describe the body under the examiner's notes,' but, like, this is Marilyn Monroe's body. Okay, sorry.
358
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Kate: It is, and listen to how he says it.
359
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"The unembalmed body is that of a 36-year-old, well-developed, well-nourished Caucasian female.
360
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The scalp is covered with bleach blonde hair. A slight ecchymotic area is noted on the left hip and left side of lower back.."
361
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A well-developed, well-nourished female? (laughing) Like, what the fuck?
362
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Kail: It sounds like he's writing poetry right now. I'm like, this is an actual Coroner's report?
363
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Kail: I feel like I'm, I'm reading like, you know, young Pablo or um, what is that, um, it's some, you know, poetry writer and -
364
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Kate: One of those...one of those poetry writers?
365
00:39:27,066 --> 00:39:35,633
(laughs) Um, her blood contained no trace of alcohol, and you know what else he couldn't find a trace of?
366
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The sleeping pills.
Kail: The sleeping pills, ohhh.
367
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Kate: But the amount of barbiturates in her system was well over the lethal dose. We're talking 40, 50, 60 pills.
368
00:39:47,466 --> 00:39:50,400
There were no traces of pills in her stomach.
369
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All he found was what he described as a brown, milky substance, but there were no food particles or anything.
370
00:39:57,133 --> 00:40:07,699
Now, Dr. Noguchi would later say that this does not rule out the possibility that she swallowed such a large amount of pills. He stated that when a person is an addict,
371
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their stomach can digest the drug quickly because it is accustomed to the drug, and digestion would occur even faster if the drugs were taken on an empty stomach.
372
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As we learned in Part One she was not much of an eater so it is plausible that she hadn't eaten anything when the drugs entered her body.
373
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Kail: I'm just clarifying - once they're digested does it - then it's smaller traces? Or do we not know that?
374
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Kate: So it's been debated,
Kail: Okay.
375
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Kate: because some school of thought is that there would have been casings from the pills in her stomach,
376
00:40:43,033 --> 00:40:48,666
or that the yellow dye that is typical on Nembutal, which is what she took,
377
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would have been located in the stomach as well. But then others come back and say well those pills were made so that the yellow dye would not run.
378
00:40:57,666 --> 00:41:04,833
And with the amount of time that occurred between her death and when the autopsy happened,
379
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the contents could have been digested.
380
00:41:09,733 --> 00:41:17,699
So according to Dr. Noguchi it is plausible that she could have taken that many pills orally but, again, it can't be confirmed.
381
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So how else could the chloral hydrate and Nembutal get into her system?
382
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,733
Let's go back to Saturday afternoon.
383
00:41:23,733 --> 00:41:28,633
She'd gotten into that heated fight with Bobby Kennedy who was at her house with Peter Lawford.
384
00:41:28,633 --> 00:41:33,733
After Marilyn lunged at him with a knife, Bobby says she needs to be sedated.
385
00:41:33,733 --> 00:41:36,633
Now this is where things get murky,
Kail: Okay.
386
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Kate: because there are a lot of different sources and they often contradict each other,
387
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:45,433
and the people who were there who have spoken about that night have changed their stories.
388
00:41:45,433 --> 00:41:47,466
We've already seen that with the housekeeper.
389
00:41:47,466 --> 00:41:57,233
I'm going to try to give a timeline of events in the best way I can, based on the sources I used which I think are most credible, and I'll link them in the show notes.
390
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Now, that afternoon Marilyn's next-door neighbors saw Bobby exit the house,
391
00:42:02,233 --> 00:42:09,200
run to his car where another man dressed in a suit was waiting, and the two of them went back inside together.
392
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,366
The man in the suit was carrying a small black case.
Kail: Oh.
393
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Kate: It is believed that Peter and Bobby then restrained her while this man injected her with a sedative, which could explain the bruise on her left hip, though I've also seen that this injection was in her armpit.
394
00:42:24,333 --> 00:42:33,200
While she is sedated, the search for her diary continues and Bobby is heard on the wiretap screaming, "Where the fuck is it?!"
Kail: Where the fuck, ooh.
395
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:39,366
Peter places a call to Dr. Greenson and tells him he needs to come tend to Marilyn.
396
00:42:39,366 --> 00:42:45,400
Bobby allegedly tells Dr. Greenson that Marilyn is threatening to tell all, and says,
397
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"We're all in this dung heap now."
Kail: Shit.
398
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Kate: This would be alarming to Greenson because as it turns out he was also sleeping with Marilyn.
Kail: Damn.
399
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Kate: And if anyone were to find out he would lose his family and most definitely his career.
400
00:43:03,266 --> 00:43:08,466
As Marilyn starts to come to, she gets pissed that these guys are going through her things
401
00:43:08,466 --> 00:43:11,133
and starts screaming for them to get out so they leave.
402
00:43:11,133 --> 00:43:18,000
Kail: Is the housekeeper, is someone there that accounted for this? Like, how do we know this?
403
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,966
Kate: So this is what Fred Otash states he heard on the wiretaps.
404
00:43:22,966 --> 00:43:31,466
Kail: Got it.
Kate: And there's eleven hours of, not footage but...eleven hours of tape from these bugs
405
00:43:31,466 --> 00:43:38,033
Kail: Okay, okay.
Kate: that several people have said they listened to and have given accounts of what they heard.
406
00:43:38,033 --> 00:43:40,133
Kail: Okay.
Kate: So there's that.
407
00:43:40,133 --> 00:43:51,333
Kate: Now Dr. Greenson arrives around 3:00 pm that afternoon. It is unclear if he gave her any type of drug to calm her down or if he just spoke with her. I couldn't find any evidence of anything.
Kail: Okay.
408
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Kate: At 5:00 pm Peter Lawford called Marilyn to invite her to a dinner party at his house.
409
00:43:57,699 --> 00:44:11,433
It was the traditional Saturday night thing that they did and I think it was kind of his way of trying to be like, "Hey, it's all good. Sorry about all that earlier, just come to our party."
Kail: Smooth things over.
410
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Kate: So she wasn't super excited about it but she was like, "Yeah sure, I guess."
411
00:44:15,333 --> 00:44:21,433
After she doesn't arrive, Peter calls again at 7:00 asking her if she's coming, and she says no because she's tired.
412
00:44:21,433 --> 00:44:27,866
As soon as that call ends she gets a call from Joe Dimaggio Jr., who is the son of her ex-husband.
413
00:44:27,866 --> 00:44:32,233
He calls to tell her that he's broken off his engagement with his girlfriend.
414
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And Marilyn was thrilled. She said she was so happy for him because apparently she didn't like the girl and she thought Joe Jr. was too young to get married.
Kail: Oh okay, okay.
415
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Kail: At least she got some good news before her death.
416
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Kate: Yeah, she was very excited about this.
417
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Joe DiMaggio confirms this call between his ex-wife and his son, saying it lasted about 15 minutes and that Marilyn seemed, "quite normal and in good spirits."
418
00:44:57,366 --> 00:45:01,100
Kail: And this is before the door is shut and locked.
Kate: Correct.
419
00:45:01,100 --> 00:45:03,100
Kate: This is at 7:00 pm.
420
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:07,366
Marilyn relays the good news to Dr. Greenson about Joe Jr.
421
00:45:07,366 --> 00:45:12,899
and she thanks him for coming over and spending time with her, and she's like, "You know what? I'm feeling much better,
422
00:45:12,899 --> 00:45:19,366
I feel a lot calmer now." And Dr. Greenson was like, "Cool beans, I'm out. I'm going to a friend's house for dinner" and he leaves.
423
00:45:19,366 --> 00:45:26,766
At 7:30 pm Peter Lawford calls Marilyn once again, asking her to come to his damn party.
424
00:45:26,766 --> 00:45:31,233
Now, this is where the famous goodbye speech comes into play.
425
00:45:31,233 --> 00:45:35,633
Peter stated that Marilyn's last words to him were,
426
00:45:35,633 --> 00:45:43,733
"Say goodbye to Pat (meaning Peter's wife), say goodbye to Jack and say goodbye to yourself, because you're a nice guy."
Kail: Right.
427
00:45:43,733 --> 00:45:51,033
Kate: But interestingly enough, Fred Otash, who had wiretaps set up in both Peter and Marilyn's homes,
428
00:45:51,033 --> 00:45:53,100
said that's not what he heard.
429
00:45:53,100 --> 00:46:00,400
He said Marilyn's response to Peter asking her to come over was, "No, I'm tired. There's nothing more for me to respond to.
430
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:07,966
Just do me a favor, tell the president I tried to get him. Tell him goodbye for me. I think my purpose has been served."
Kail: Oh.
431
00:46:07,966 --> 00:46:12,666
Kate: To me, when she says 'there is nothing more for me to respond to,'
432
00:46:12,666 --> 00:46:16,366
I think she assumes, and probably correctly, that Bobby was at Peter's,
433
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and she didn't want to get into another argument with him.
Kail: Mm hmm.
434
00:46:19,066 --> 00:46:23,833
Kate: And I think when she says 'tell the president I tried to get him, tell him goodbye for me,'
435
00:46:23,833 --> 00:46:30,233
I think she's just saying, "Yeah, I tried to call the president out and reveal his shit, but I'm done.
Kail: Right.
436
00:46:30,233 --> 00:46:39,000
Kate: My purpose has been served sounds either like 'I made my point' or it's her saying, like, she's done being their plaything - it's over. That's what I think.
437
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In the next few hours, a lethal amount of drugs would enter her body killing her.
438
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So I'm going to now walk through the theories of how they got there.
439
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There's the suicide theory. She was upset about Bobby and feeling depressed and swallowed a lethal amount of pills.
Kail: I don't buy it.
440
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,866
Kate: I do not think she died by suicide.
441
00:46:57,866 --> 00:47:09,000
She was found with several pill bottles on her nightstand and around her bedroom, but one interesting observation to note is that all the pill bottles were neatly capped.
442
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:16,433
If she were in a state where she's taking different pills from various bottles ready to end it all,
443
00:47:16,433 --> 00:47:19,933
would she have neatly capped all the bottles? I don't think so.
444
00:47:19,933 --> 00:47:21,800
Kail: How could she? She couldn't do that.
445
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,699
Kate: Also, there was no suicide note.
446
00:47:24,699 --> 00:47:33,500
Now she had reportedly left a note in her previous suicide attempts, and given how much writing she did...she wrote everything down.
447
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:37,266
Kail: She was going to write a note if she was going to do this herself.
Kate: That's what I think.
448
00:47:37,266 --> 00:47:38,966
Kail: That's so clear to me.
449
00:47:38,966 --> 00:47:44,133
Kate: And in her previous attempts there was vomit and undigested pills.
450
00:47:44,133 --> 00:47:51,066
But her autopsy indicated none of that was president, but...president? Oh my god, that was a Freudian slip. (laughs)
Kail: Well, you've got it on the brain.
451
00:47:51,066 --> 00:47:55,666
Kate: ...indicated that there was no vomit or undigested pills present.
452
00:47:55,666 --> 00:48:00,166
Also, and this to me is the thing that really stands out,
453
00:48:00,166 --> 00:48:02,933
there was no drinking glass found in the room.
454
00:48:02,933 --> 00:48:05,066
Kail: Ah, she didn't...no.
455
00:48:05,066 --> 00:48:13,466
Kate: Pretty sure she didn't just work up a bunch of saliva to swallow sixty pills.
Kail: I can barely do that for one. There's no way that she...yeah.
456
00:48:13,466 --> 00:48:17,366
Kate: Yeah, so I -
Kail: This theory is wrong.
457
00:48:17,366 --> 00:48:19,966
Kate: I'm not buying that it was a suicide.
458
00:48:19,966 --> 00:48:22,833
The next theory is that she accidentally OD'd
459
00:48:22,833 --> 00:48:31,566
. It's plausible. She was upset, she was trying to calm down and relax, maybe she just took a few too many.
Kail: Things don't line up though. Where's the glass?
460
00:48:31,566 --> 00:48:34,600
Kate: Exactly.
Kail: It's kind of the same ordeal, right?
461
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:43,566
Kate: For a while, yeah, I thought this was likely what happened, and I was like, "Perhaps she took too much and no one revived her. Either they couldn't or they wouldn't."
462
00:48:43,566 --> 00:48:50,533
But yeah, then I think about the lack of a drinking glass and the pill bottles neatly capped, so I don't think that's what happened.
463
00:48:50,533 --> 00:48:56,500
Theory Three is that the CIA or FBI ordered her to be killed because she knew too much.
464
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:58,433
This too is plausible.
465
00:48:58,433 --> 00:49:02,899
She knew a lot of government secrets and the FBI had her under surveillance.
466
00:49:02,899 --> 00:49:09,500
Plus if the government was willing to take out a foreign leader, who's to say they wouldn't off a movie star because of her ties to the Kennedys,
467
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:13,466
as well as her involvement with people that were suspected of being communists.
468
00:49:13,466 --> 00:49:15,033
So I could see this being a thing.
469
00:49:15,033 --> 00:49:22,633
Kail: I definitely could see this being more of a thing than the first two, and I also think that trouble plays with trouble,
470
00:49:22,633 --> 00:49:34,066
so you know, they knew that she had a lot against them, right? And something had already happened
471
00:49:34,066 --> 00:49:39,733
where there was, kind of, the ties that were broken, right? And I think that at this point
472
00:49:39,733 --> 00:49:42,666
they had some...they needed some protection.
473
00:49:42,666 --> 00:49:47,833
So this theory is...I'm going to give it a, you know, a little star.
474
00:49:47,833 --> 00:49:50,266
Kate: Yeah, it's plausible.
475
00:49:50,266 --> 00:49:57,266
Theory Four is that Jimmy Hoffa and the mafia were behind her death as a way for Hoffa to get to Bobby Kennedy.
476
00:49:57,266 --> 00:50:03,366
Now, although I believe Hoffa could have put a hit out on her if he wanted, I don't think he wanted to.
Kail: Right.
477
00:50:03,366 --> 00:50:07,666
Kate: He was using her. He had her place bugged to get dirt on the Kennedys.
478
00:50:07,666 --> 00:50:20,033
She was useful to him so I don't think he would have her killed.
Kail: No, and I feel like somebody in that position actually would just go after the person they're going after.
479
00:50:20,033 --> 00:50:22,800
Kate: That is exactly my next comment.
480
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:34,233
Like, if he was going to do it I don't think he would have done it via drugs in this, like, crazy way. I think he would have just had someone come over and shoot her, to put it bluntly.
Kail: Yeah, I'm gonna nix this one, too.
481
00:50:34,233 --> 00:50:41,200
Kate: The final theory: Bobby Kennedy had her killed.
482
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,066
I gotta say, this is plausible.
Kail: Mm hmm.
483
00:50:45,066 --> 00:50:53,600
Now a lot of the information I got that supports this theory comes from the book "Marilyn Monroe: A Case for Murder" by Jay Margolis, which I'll link.
484
00:50:53,600 --> 00:51:01,966
In it he cites several sources and interviews to corroborate the information, and I have to say he makes a compelling case.
485
00:51:01,966 --> 00:51:12,400
Kail: Here's what I want to say about just what I believe in this time era that the Kennedys were like. They didn't want to get their hands dirty.
486
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,566
Right? And so -
Kate: Oh of course not.
487
00:51:14,566 --> 00:51:23,666
Kail: - they're not going to use something, you know, like a knife or even a gun because that creates more evidence, right?
488
00:51:23,666 --> 00:51:29,866
They're going to do something that's a lot easier to pin on something else - pills.
489
00:51:29,866 --> 00:51:32,699
Something that's not going to leave much of a trace.
490
00:51:32,699 --> 00:51:42,800
They're going to do something that's not going to leave a mess because they don't like getting their hands dirty. I mean, they go to Martha's Vineyard and wear very crisp, clean linen.
491
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:51,633
Kate: I love that's your, that's your, uh, not the not the line - what's the word I'm thinking of?
492
00:51:51,633 --> 00:51:55,533
It's like that's the reason: they wear linen.
493
00:51:55,533 --> 00:51:59,466
So there's not going to be - they weren't going to use a weapon.
494
00:51:59,466 --> 00:52:04,133
Kail: Well and, you know, when you see all the old pictures, right?
495
00:52:04,133 --> 00:52:13,666
You see them and they're just clean cut, crisp people and clean cut, crisp - they play dirty but but they don't get dirty, okay?
496
00:52:13,666 --> 00:52:14,866
Kate: But they wear linen.
497
00:52:14,866 --> 00:52:16,366
Kail: They wear linens (said with a drawl).
498
00:52:16,366 --> 00:52:17,533
Kate: (mocking) Linens.
499
00:52:17,533 --> 00:52:25,666
(laughs) You sounded like you were from Kentucky for a second. I can say that because I am from Kentucky.
500
00:52:25,666 --> 00:52:27,833
They wear linens.
Kail: I don't know what just happened.
501
00:52:27,833 --> 00:52:34,600
Kail: I don't know what just happened. I was getting really worked up about this and I was thinking to myself, -
Kate: Oh, that was amazing.
502
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:39,333
Kail: - you know, they weren't in the working class, so with Hoffa I'm thinking -
Kate: Exactly.
503
00:52:39,333 --> 00:52:54,166
Kail: - if he were gonna do it, he's just gonna do it, right? He's not even going to think about "Oh, let me do some injections because... or let me have some kind of pills be like... or liquid in her drink. It's just not going to happen.
Kate: No, of course not.
504
00:52:54,166 --> 00:53:00,766
Kail: Whereas if it's with the Kennedys it has to be strategic, right?
505
00:53:00,766 --> 00:53:05,300
And they had to put a lot of thought into it, and they had to figure out the easiest way
506
00:53:05,300 --> 00:53:09,566
to get this to happen without having much trace or evidence.
507
00:53:09,566 --> 00:53:15,966
Kate: Well I don't even think that they put a lot of thought into it, if in fact, this is what happened.
508
00:53:15,966 --> 00:53:26,966
I think..well let me...I'm gonna lay out the remaining timeline for the evening, based on what Jay Margolis gathered for his book.
509
00:53:26,966 --> 00:53:35,366
So Norman Jeffries, who was Eunice Murray's son-in law and he was also a handyman working on Marilyn's home that day,
510
00:53:35,366 --> 00:53:45,566
stated that Bobby Kennedy along with two security officers arrived back at Marilyn's that evening between 9:30 and 9:45 pm.
511
00:53:45,566 --> 00:53:52,433
They instructed Norman and Eunice to leave but those two didn't go far, they just kind of went right next door.
512
00:53:52,433 --> 00:53:57,566
Bobby and his men then entered the guest cottage, presumably to search for the diary.
513
00:53:57,566 --> 00:54:02,833
They broke into Marilyn's filing cabinet which ended up making a lot of noise.
514
00:54:02,833 --> 00:54:09,800
At 9:45 pm Marilyn, who was on the phone with her friend Jose Bolaños at the time,
515
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:15,133
asked him to hold on a minute and she said, "Yo, there's a lot of noise out back. Let me go check this out."
516
00:54:15,133 --> 00:54:18,300
Bolaños said she never returned to the phone.
517
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:25,366
Marilyn goes to the guest cottage and sees Bobby and his men going through her stuff and she starts screaming at them.
518
00:54:25,366 --> 00:54:30,100
On the wiretaps - which this has been corroborated in multiple sources -
519
00:54:30,100 --> 00:54:38,733
one of the three men covered her face with a pillow while another made an enema of chloral hydrate and Nembutal.
520
00:54:38,733 --> 00:54:47,833
I read in one source it was Bobby who held the pillow over her face but I couldn't find that confirmed anywhere so I don't know if that's what happened.
521
00:54:47,833 --> 00:54:52,366
Regardless though, I do think if this scenario did happen
522
00:54:52,366 --> 00:54:54,633
it would take three men.
523
00:54:54,633 --> 00:54:58,733
One to hold the pillow on her face, one to restrain her,
524
00:54:58,733 --> 00:55:02,300
Kail: And then one to put the enema in the place it needs to go.
Kate: Exactly.
525
00:55:02,300 --> 00:55:11,266
Kate: She already had the supplies needed for an enema because she did take those from time to time, so it's plausible that they were easily able to create and administer one.
526
00:55:11,266 --> 00:55:15,233
It's presumed -
Kail: I don't want to go - I don't want to die that way. Oh my god.
527
00:55:15,233 --> 00:55:19,200
Kate: Well, I mean, who does?
Kail: Right. But...wow.
528
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,533
Kate: It's presumed she did not walk into the guest cottage naked,
529
00:55:22,533 --> 00:55:27,666
so if these events occurred the men would have had to strip her before administering the enema.
530
00:55:27,666 --> 00:55:32,233
And when I first read this I was like, "How could they do that because she'd be fighting like hell?"
531
00:55:32,233 --> 00:55:39,400
But then I read in another source, that she (and I think this was information given by Eunice)
532
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,466
that, you know, she was in for the night; she was just wearing her white terry cloth robe,
533
00:55:44,466 --> 00:55:51,566
which would make sense because she was just chilling in her room, she wasn't planning to go to that party, she's talking on the phone,
534
00:55:51,566 --> 00:55:54,699
and that robe was her go-to. We learned that in the previous episode.
535
00:55:54,699 --> 00:56:02,699
Kail: And how do we not know that maybe she took, you know, if she had a nightly routine of taking like a sleeping pill,
536
00:56:02,699 --> 00:56:10,866
maybe she was relaxed. I mean, maybe she didn't, you know, it kind of like relaxes you and calms you. Maybe she didn't have it in her to fight
537
00:56:10,866 --> 00:56:12,600
a heavy fight that could be heard.
538
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:21,133
Kate: I don't know that she would have taken a pill at that point. She had already been injected earlier remember, so
Kail: Oh, right.
539
00:56:21,133 --> 00:56:32,600
Kate: it's possible that, yeah, she was just kind of chilling out from that. But regardless, I could see that if she was just wearing the robe they could easily slip that off of her.
540
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:40,233
Now at 10:00 pm Marilyn attempts to make a call in the guest cottage but the person doesn't answer and she goes unconscious.
541
00:56:40,233 --> 00:56:45,533
Bobby continues searching for the diary for the next thirty minutes.
542
00:56:45,533 --> 00:56:53,833
Between 10:20 and 10:25 someone - it's never confirmed who (but I think we all have an idea) -
543
00:56:53,833 --> 00:57:03,533
calls Peter Lawford and tells him to get to Marilyn's, and orders him to hire a professional to remove any link between Marilyn and the Kennedys.
Kail: Wow.
544
00:57:03,533 --> 00:57:05,800
Kate: Peter then calls Fred Otash.
545
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,233
Now remember, Fred Otash had bugged Peter's place.
Kail: Right.
546
00:57:09,233 --> 00:57:17,566
And this is what's wild because Otash's name comes up in other cases. Like everyone used this guy to spy on everyone else.
Kail: Fascinating.
547
00:57:17,566 --> 00:57:23,833
So Peter calls Fred and tells him to meet him at Marilyn's.
Kail: So Peter had to end his dinner party a little early, huh?
548
00:57:23,833 --> 00:57:28,166
Kate: Yes. I question the whole dinner party situation.
549
00:57:28,166 --> 00:57:35,066
Kail: I wonder if he was trying to sway her to get over there so that they could do this all in the vicinity of where they were.
550
00:57:35,066 --> 00:57:41,866
Kate: See, I don't know and because I couldn't get a lot of information corroborated about this dinner party -
551
00:57:41,866 --> 00:57:48,666
again, It is murky guys, like it's a lot. So I -
552
00:57:48,666 --> 00:57:56,733
I'm not really, I'm not going into the dinner party at all, I'm just giving the account of what...based on what was heard on these wire tapes at Marilyn's house.
553
00:57:56,733 --> 00:58:03,866
So according to Norman Jeffries, at 10:30 pm Bobby and his security officers exit.
554
00:58:03,866 --> 00:58:08,133
Norman and Eunice then hear Marilyn's dog barking in the guest cottage,
555
00:58:08,133 --> 00:58:12,500
so they walk over to see Marilyn because remember - they are just, they did not go far.
556
00:58:12,500 --> 00:58:15,100
So they're kind of keeping an eye on everything that's going on.
557
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:18,800
They walk over to see Marilyn face down and leaning on a phone.
558
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,866
She was still alive at this point but just barely.
Kail: Oh.
559
00:58:22,866 --> 00:58:30,400
Eunice uses the phone to call an ambulance and Dr. Greenson, who tells her to call Dr. Engelberg.
560
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,899
And although Dr. Engelberg - that was her physician, remember -
561
00:58:33,899 --> 00:58:42,766
is placed at the scene by a number of sources, I can't really figure out what his role was that evening other than he too stated that her death was a suicide.
562
00:58:42,766 --> 00:58:50,800
According to Norman, shortly after Eunice placed these calls Peter Lawford arrived with Patricia, or "Pat," Newcomb.
563
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,899
Pat Newcomb was Marilyn's publicist and so-called friend.
564
00:58:55,899 --> 00:59:00,433
She worked in the office of Arthur Jacobs who was Marilyn's PR agent.
565
00:59:00,433 --> 00:59:06,833
Side note: Marilyn suspected that Pat was also sleeping with Bobby, so there's that.
Kail: Ay yi yi.
566
00:59:06,833 --> 00:59:13,600
According to Norman, Pat started screaming at Eunice, blaming her for Marilyn's current state.
567
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,366
Norman then escorted his mother-in-law into the main house.
568
00:59:17,366 --> 00:59:26,766
Eunice then went into Marilyn's bedroom, grabbed the diary - knowing right where it was kept - as well as an address book, and put them in her purse.
569
00:59:26,766 --> 00:59:30,033
Fred arrives and he and Peter go into the guest cottage,
570
00:59:30,033 --> 00:59:36,400
strip the bed and use the sheets to clean up Marilyn from the enema, because enemas leak.
Kail: Mm hmm.
571
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:43,233
Kate: They then place Marilyn back on the bed face up and give the soiled sheets to Eunice and tell her to wash them.
572
00:59:43,233 --> 00:59:53,233
Kail: So this is why earlier in the Coroner's report we know that she had been moved or that she had been turned in the way that the blood had ran.
573
00:59:53,233 --> 01:00:00,033
Kate: Remember though, she's still alive at this point so there wouldn't be lividity yet.
Kail: Oh, yet. Okay.
574
01:00:00,033 --> 01:00:01,766
Kate: She's just barely alive.
575
01:00:01,766 --> 01:00:05,100
So they give the sheets to Eunice and tell her to go wash them.
576
01:00:05,100 --> 01:00:11,800
Pat Newcomb then calls the Hollywood Bowl where Arthur Jacobs was attending a Henry Mancini concert
577
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:16,133
and has them give Arthur a message to get to Marilyn's right away.
578
01:00:16,133 --> 01:00:22,033
Arthur Jacobs arrives about 11:00 pm. The ambulance arrives right around the same time.
579
01:00:22,033 --> 01:00:31,133
James Hall was the ambulance attendant. He was 22 years old at the time, and identified the first person he saw as Pat Newcomb.
580
01:00:31,133 --> 01:00:37,666
She was screaming, "She's dead! She's dead! I think she's dead! I think she took some pills."
581
01:00:37,666 --> 01:00:43,933
Hall noted that he found Marilyn lying face up with no blanket or sheet underneath her.
582
01:00:43,933 --> 01:00:53,566
He smelled her breath and noted that he did not detect the scent of pear, which when chloral hydrate is taken orally there is a distinct pear smell that it leaves.
583
01:00:53,566 --> 01:01:00,899
Sometime between 11:00 and 11:30 Hall, along with ambulance driver Murray Leibowitz,
584
01:01:00,899 --> 01:01:06,200
moved Marilyn to the floor because they needed a hard surface to perform CPR,
585
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,566
and he said when they did this he dropped her,
586
01:01:09,566 --> 01:01:12,633
and that's how she got the bruise on her left side.
587
01:01:12,633 --> 01:01:17,933
He said she was alive, "dead bodies don't bruise."
Kail: Oh.
588
01:01:17,933 --> 01:01:25,033
Kate: Hall then inserted an airway down Marilyn's throat and attached a resuscitator while giving her external heart massage.
589
01:01:25,033 --> 01:01:28,500
She began getting more color and was showing improvement.
590
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:34,866
This is when Hall states that a man he would later identify as Dr. Greenson came in and took over.
591
01:01:34,866 --> 01:01:40,600
Greensoon was like, "Thanks kid, got it from here," in ordered that Hall remove the airway.
592
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:46,500
Now I'm going to read you a statement given by Hall about what happened next.
593
01:01:46,500 --> 01:01:52,666
Hall States: This was the wrong thing to do, but I was in no position to argue.
594
01:01:52,666 --> 01:02:02,400
He was supposedly a physician. I was just a 22-year-old ambulance attendant who had been told time and time again by his superiors "never argue with an MD."
595
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,633
All he had to do was report me and I was out of a job.
596
01:02:05,633 --> 01:02:08,600
My wife was pregnant so I kept my mouth shut.
597
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:14,866
He pushed me aside, reached into his medical bag, pulled out a syringe with a long heart needle,
598
01:02:14,866 --> 01:02:19,100
filled it with a brownish liquid and injected it into Miss Monroe's heart.
599
01:02:19,100 --> 01:02:22,733
Immediately, Miss Monroe started to lose her color again.
600
01:02:22,733 --> 01:02:27,400
Then he announced, 'I'm pronouncing her dead. You can go now.'
601
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,899
I couldn't believe it. Maybe I shouldn't second guess the guy,
602
01:02:30,899 --> 01:02:35,666
but I'm sure if I had gotten her to the hospital Miss Monroe would be alive today.
603
01:02:35,666 --> 01:02:40,833
Just as we were packing up our equipment, two men dressed as police officers arrived.
604
01:02:40,833 --> 01:02:44,466
They didn't ask us any questions which I thought was strange."
605
01:02:44,466 --> 01:02:50,366
So it is believed that Bobby Kennedy assumed she would die from the enema.
606
01:02:50,366 --> 01:02:58,333
but hadn't planned on the ambulance arriving. So then he ordered Dr. Greenson to intervene and give her the fatal shot.
607
01:02:58,333 --> 01:03:06,633
And I think Greenson, Peter, everyone was enamored by the Kennedys and also fearful of them, so I think they were willing to do whatever Bobby asked.
608
01:03:06,633 --> 01:03:15,100
And inside that shot, that brownish liquid was basically a liquified form of Nembutal.
609
01:03:15,100 --> 01:03:16,633
Kail: Which is what they found in her system.
610
01:03:16,633 --> 01:03:20,666
Kate: James Hall was given several polygraph tests.
611
01:03:20,666 --> 01:03:23,699
He passed all of them with flying colors.
612
01:03:23,699 --> 01:03:32,899
He also went under forensic hypnosis and his account under hypnosis aligned perfectly with the statement he had given.
613
01:03:32,899 --> 01:03:41,833
Now between 11:45 and 11:50 Marilyn's neighbor, Abe Landau, and his wife returned home after an evening out
614
01:03:41,833 --> 01:03:45,166
and noted several vehicles parked along the street:
615
01:03:45,166 --> 01:03:50,600
a limousine, a police car, an ambulance and a sedan.
616
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,500
Kail: Well we know what Bobby was riding in.
617
01:03:52,500 --> 01:03:56,733
Kate: Yes. And the police car is important because, remember,
618
01:03:56,733 --> 01:04:00,333
the police weren't called until 4:25 am.
Kail: Right.
619
01:04:00,333 --> 01:04:04,166
Kate: And this neighbor arrived home around 11:45/11:50.
620
01:04:04,166 --> 01:04:08,866
The police car belonged to Sergeant Marvin Iannone - I might be saying that wrong.
621
01:04:08,866 --> 01:04:13,666
He was Bobby Kennedy's sort of "personal" police officer.
622
01:04:13,666 --> 01:04:18,699
He is the officer who signed the slip for the ambulance attendants so they could get paid.
623
01:04:18,699 --> 01:04:25,833
After James Hall and his partner left, it is believed that those at the house staged the scene to make it look like a suicide.
624
01:04:25,833 --> 01:04:32,366
They moved Marilyn's body to the bedroom, so that would have been when the faint lividity happened was when she died on the floor.
625
01:04:32,366 --> 01:04:34,233
Kail: And then they moved her.
626
01:04:34,233 --> 01:04:42,766
Kate: And then when they moved the body to the bedroom they placed her face down.
Kail: To make it look like she went to go to sleep.
627
01:04:42,766 --> 01:04:51,666
Kate: Well, it's believed that they placed her face down so that fixed lividity could disguise the needle Mark Dr. Greenson had left.
Kail: Oh.
628
01:04:51,666 --> 01:04:55,733
Kate: The bottles of pills were placed around her room.
629
01:04:55,733 --> 01:05:00,466
At 12:10 am near the intersection of Robertson and Olympic Boulevards,
630
01:05:00,466 --> 01:05:08,333
Officer Lynn Franklin pulls over a Lincoln Continental sedan with its headlights off going eighty miles per hour.
Kail: Damn.
631
01:05:08,333 --> 01:05:17,766
Kate: Peter Lawford was driving, Dr. Greenson was in the passenger seat, and though the officer didn't know who he was at the time he was able to identify him later.
632
01:05:17,766 --> 01:05:20,699
And Bobby Kennedy was in the back seat.
633
01:05:20,699 --> 01:05:27,400
Officer Franklin didn't want to give a ticket because this was the Attorney General, so he just sent them on their way.
Kail: Right.
634
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,266
Kate: Now sometime between 12:30 and 2:00 am,
635
01:05:30,266 --> 01:05:37,400
Bobby takes a helicopter from Peter Lawford's house to LAX where he then flew to San Francisco.
636
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,400
There is a flight log that confirms this.
637
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:47,533
And neighbors of Lawford were interviewed separately and they all gave the same story - that a helicopter landed on the beach,
638
01:05:47,533 --> 01:05:55,066
which was legal back then and this particular helicopter was one that both Lawford and Sinatra often chartered.
639
01:05:55,066 --> 01:05:57,233
Kail: Used.
Kate: Exactly.
640
01:05:57,233 --> 01:05:59,833
Kate: So this wasn't a new thing.
641
01:05:59,833 --> 01:06:10,133
So the helicopter landed on the beach, it was loud, it blew sand everywhere, one guy was like, "Yeah, my pool had all this sand and debris in it." Ugh, because...rich people.
642
01:06:10,133 --> 01:06:13,200
Greenson then goes back to Marilyn's house.
643
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:22,800
It is unclear how he got there since he'd been riding in Peter's car. I couldn't find anything saying that Peter went back so I'm not, I'm not sure about that.
644
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,166
Kail: Just the doctor, okay.
Kate: Yeah.
645
01:06:25,166 --> 01:06:31,066
Kate: I mean, possibly Peter did but I, I'm unclear on that, and I couldn't find anything that really said either way.
646
01:06:31,066 --> 01:06:34,933
At 4:25 am Dr. Greenson calls the police.
647
01:06:34,933 --> 01:06:40,433
Sergeant Jack Clemmons answers the call and Dr. Greenson says he wants to
648
01:06:40,433 --> 01:06:44,600
"report the death of a person - a sudden and unexplained death."
649
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,699
Which is just like...a weird thing to say.
650
01:06:48,699 --> 01:06:51,666
"A sudden and unexplained death."
651
01:06:51,666 --> 01:06:56,800
So upon arrival,
Kail: But this is already after the two cops had appeared at 11:25...
652
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:02,433
Kate: Oh yeah, yeah, this is hours later.
Kail: The ambulance and all of that. Okay.
653
01:07:02,433 --> 01:07:07,866
Kate: Upon arrival Officer Clemmons said he immediately felt like the scene had been staged.
654
01:07:07,866 --> 01:07:13,800
He thought it was weird that she was lying face down in a soldier's position, just perfectly straight,
655
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:19,566
and he noted that the pill bottles were all neatly capped, and for a suicide that would be weird.
656
01:07:19,566 --> 01:07:24,233
He also thought it was weird that the housekeeper was doing laundry.
657
01:07:24,233 --> 01:07:26,533
Kate: Well she was washing those enema sheets.
658
01:07:26,533 --> 01:07:32,766
Kate: He was like, "Uhhh, your employer just died. You maybe want to put down the detergent? I don't know."
659
01:07:32,766 --> 01:07:39,566
Kate: This is when Eunice and Dr. Greenson gave their statements about when they found her, when the doctor came over and all that, which just didn't add up.
660
01:07:39,566 --> 01:07:46,133
Kail: And the doctor hired her.
Kate: Exactly, so she's, I mean, she's gonna say whatever Greenson tells her she needs to say.
Kail: Exactly.
661
01:07:46,133 --> 01:07:51,500
Kate: At 5:30 am Sergeant Marvin Iannone dismissed Clemmons from the scene.
662
01:07:51,500 --> 01:08:00,633
He was like, "You can go." Meanwhile, Pat Newcomb is still at the house and she is frantically looking for something. She's going through all the drawers and stuff.
663
01:08:00,633 --> 01:08:06,733
Police had to kick her out because they were trying to seal off the scene and she just did not want to leave.
Kail: Hmm.
664
01:08:06,733 --> 01:08:12,933
Kate: At 5:45 am employees from the mortuary show up to take away Marilyn's body.
665
01:08:12,933 --> 01:08:17,733
Not the coroner - the mortuary - where she was to be embalmed.
666
01:08:17,733 --> 01:08:20,066
Kate: What?!
Kail: That seems pretty fast.
667
01:08:20,066 --> 01:08:25,966
Kate: She hadn't been examined yet or anything and no one knows who made the call to the mortuary.
668
01:08:25,966 --> 01:08:30,966
Kail: And who called, I was gonna say who made the call - exactly.
Kate: They don't know.
669
01:08:30,966 --> 01:08:35,033
Kate: Dr. Noguchi had to wait to do the opsa - the offopsy?
670
01:08:35,033 --> 01:08:38,433
Kail: Words are hard.
Kate: You know what? It's late. Yeah, they're real hard.
671
01:08:38,433 --> 01:08:41,566
Kate: - had to wait to do the autopsy because he didn't have the body,
672
01:08:41,566 --> 01:08:50,066
and by the time he got it he said that based on the advanced state of rigor mortis, he placed her time of death somewhere around midnight, which would add up.
673
01:08:50,066 --> 01:08:58,899
There is an autopsy photo - I'm not going to post it because I know some people don't want to see that kind of thing. If you do it is pretty easy to find online.
674
01:08:58,899 --> 01:09:01,866
And there are some who believe it is not her in the photo,
675
01:09:01,866 --> 01:09:09,066
and there are conspiracy theorists who think either something was done with her body or that she didn't even actually die.
676
01:09:09,066 --> 01:09:12,699
I've looked at this photo - it is her, I have no doubt,
677
01:09:12,699 --> 01:09:18,899
because I've seen other photos of her where she's not wearing a lot of makeup and her hair isn't perfectly done and I'm like, "Yeah, that's her."
678
01:09:18,899 --> 01:09:27,500
Kail: Was her body cremated? Because I know Hugh Hefner bought his headstone next to hers, so is that - is there a body in there? Do we know anything more about that?
679
01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:30,033
Kate: Her body was not cremated.
680
01:09:30,033 --> 01:09:35,200
Okay, now this is really sad. Initially, no one claimed her body.
681
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:39,366
She didn't have any family, none of her friends came forward,
682
01:09:39,366 --> 01:09:46,133
and upon learning of her death, Joe DiMaggio flew from New York to L.A. and claimed her body.
683
01:09:46,133 --> 01:09:50,733
He arranged her funeral, he covered all of the expenses,
684
01:09:50,733 --> 01:09:54,833
and he was very particular about who could and could not come.
685
01:09:54,833 --> 01:09:57,466
He only invited around thirty people,
686
01:09:57,466 --> 01:10:05,533
and he refused to let the Lawfords or any of her so-called friends attend.
Kail: I think it's safe to say the Kennedys were not there.
Kate: Oh no, they were not there
687
01:10:05,533 --> 01:10:12,566
Kate: because Joe felt that all of those people had played a part in her death and he did not want them at her funeral.
688
01:10:12,566 --> 01:10:20,300
Now Morris Engelberg, who was Joe DiMaggio's lawyer and friend, was at his bedside when Joe died in 1999,
689
01:10:20,300 --> 01:10:29,333
and he said Joe's last words were, "I'll finally get to see Marilyn."
Kail: Oh wow, I just got the chills.
690
01:10:29,333 --> 01:10:38,866
Kate: Now, I mean, it's weird because he did seem to take care of her. You know, he was the one who moved her out of that psychiatric clinic.
Kail: Right.
691
01:10:38,866 --> 01:10:44,733
Kail: Right, he...it's like he did some good. He had some love for her but it was a twisted kind of love.
692
01:10:44,733 --> 01:10:48,200
Kate: Yeah, that's the thing it was just like, agh.
693
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,266
Arthur Miller did not attend her funeral,
694
01:10:51,266 --> 01:10:53,400
but he never got over her.
695
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:59,266
His relationship with Marilyn was reflected in his writing with After the Fall which was considered by many to be
696
01:10:59,266 --> 01:11:06,366
largely autobiographical, and Finishing the Picture, which was about the making of The Misfits.
697
01:11:06,366 --> 01:11:11,466
No criminal investigation was ever launched in the death of Marilyn Monroe.
Kail: What?
698
01:11:11,466 --> 01:11:18,500
Kate: That is wild! The main people involved that fateful night? Never questioned by authorities.
699
01:11:18,500 --> 01:11:22,766
All the evidence that could have helped determine what exactly happened that night?
700
01:11:22,766 --> 01:11:24,833
Oddly, it all disappeared.
701
01:11:24,833 --> 01:11:29,133
Kail: How much money do you think that all of these people made?
702
01:11:29,133 --> 01:11:32,466
Kail: You know, because clearly they're getting paid off.
Kate: Oh yeah.
703
01:11:32,466 --> 01:11:36,233
Kate: I mean, if this happened, allegedly. Kennedys, don't come at me, I don't know.
704
01:11:36,233 --> 01:11:39,699
The phone records? Gone.
705
01:11:39,699 --> 01:11:42,433
The wire taps? Gone.
706
01:11:42,433 --> 01:11:46,866
Kail: Organs?
Kate: Her organs and tissue samples? Discarded.
707
01:11:46,866 --> 01:11:48,733
Kate: And the diary?
Kail: Not to be found?
708
01:11:48,733 --> 01:11:57,333
Kate: Norman Jeffries said he saw Eunice hand over the diary and address book to the coroner's office and it mysteriously disappeared.
709
01:11:57,333 --> 01:12:02,866
I don't know if that is what happened, but needless to say the diary was never found.
Kail: They need to check her purse.
710
01:12:02,866 --> 01:12:08,933
Kate: The thing is, because I was thinking about this, I mean, she worked for Dr. Greenson.
711
01:12:08,933 --> 01:12:15,533
If Greenson told her, "Oh you should send it to the coroner's office," and then they
712
01:12:15,533 --> 01:12:20,600
I mean, because clearly people were in cahoots because her organs disappeared, so
713
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:26,800
someone at the coroner's office, you know, was working for someone.
Kail: Was also part of this, yeah.
714
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,666
Kate: Yeah, ugh, it's just a lot.
715
01:12:29,666 --> 01:12:34,066
Now, Pat Newcomb? She claimed she was never at Marilyn's that night.
Kail: What?
716
01:12:34,066 --> 01:12:39,566
Kate: Despite multiple people identifying her at the scene. She was just like, "No, it wasn't me."
717
01:12:39,566 --> 01:12:43,733
Immediately after Marilyn's death Pat Newcomb and Eunice Murray
718
01:12:43,733 --> 01:12:48,133
suddenly went away to Europe for months on extended vacations.
Kail: Oh did they now?
719
01:12:48,133 --> 01:12:55,233
Kate: Years later, when Pat was asked if the Kennedys sent her away her response was, "Well I was going anyway."
720
01:12:55,233 --> 01:12:57,233
Um, what?
721
01:12:57,233 --> 01:12:59,533
Kail: Well that confirms everything. Ok.
722
01:12:59,533 --> 01:13:02,633
Kate: When she returned to the U.S., get this -
723
01:13:02,633 --> 01:13:09,000
she was hired as an information specialist in the United States Information Agency,
724
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,600
as well as a consultant to the Justice Department,
725
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:17,733
and she worked on Bobby Kennedy's senatorial campaign in 1964
726
01:13:17,733 --> 01:13:22,833
and was his campaign manager in the 1968 presidential election.
727
01:13:22,833 --> 01:13:26,200
Kail: Well how convenient. This has some "Catch Me If You Can" vibes to it.
728
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:30,566
Kate: It's wild. Marvin Iannone, Kennedy's personal cop?
729
01:13:30,566 --> 01:13:36,066
He got promoted to becoming the first Assistant Chief of Police for the LAPD.
730
01:13:36,066 --> 01:13:40,533
Bobby Kennedy? Yeah, he said he was never even in L.A. that night...so weird.
731
01:13:40,533 --> 01:13:44,966
Kail: Because he was wearing his white linen somewhere.
Kate: He was wearing his linen somewhere. (laughs)
732
01:13:44,966 --> 01:13:51,666
Kate: Peter Lawford, when asked about it, was like, "Yeah, no, Bobby wasn't here. I don't...I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't seen him."
733
01:13:51,666 --> 01:13:53,100
Kail: He missed the dinner party.
734
01:13:53,100 --> 01:13:56,233
Kate: Yeah he, (laughs) yeah he was like, "I was just at my dinner party. I don't know."
735
01:13:56,233 --> 01:14:05,733
A reporter that was on the scene that Sunday morning got word back to Lawford that Bobby had been identified as being at Marilyn's, and he was going to run the story
736
01:14:05,733 --> 01:14:10,533
and word came back saying that Bobby Kennedy would appreciate it if he didn't,
737
01:14:10,533 --> 01:14:12,066
and the story didn't run.
738
01:14:12,066 --> 01:14:19,800
Dr. Greenson was a clinical professor of psychiatry at UCLA and served on the "Board on Professional Standards."
739
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:24,066
He published 53 papers in psychoanalytic journals.
740
01:14:24,066 --> 01:14:31,500
And he kept boxes of records on Marilyn Monroe at the UCLA library that are available to the public...
741
01:14:31,500 --> 01:14:33,133
except for one,
742
01:14:33,133 --> 01:14:38,533
which is to remain sealed until January 1st, 2039.
743
01:14:38,533 --> 01:14:42,133
So I guess we'll have to wait sixteen and a half years before we learn the truth.
744
01:14:42,133 --> 01:14:44,300
So what are your thoughts? What do you think happened?
745
01:14:44,300 --> 01:14:47,833
Like which theory do you believe?
746
01:14:47,833 --> 01:14:49,133
Kail: Theory Five.
747
01:14:49,133 --> 01:14:50,699
Kate: You think she was murdered?
748
01:14:50,699 --> 01:14:53,933
Kail: Yeah, I definitely think that there was some sort of a homicide.
749
01:14:53,933 --> 01:15:01,866
I definitely think that there was lots of hiding There was so many signs that point to the fact that
750
01:15:01,866 --> 01:15:06,766
1. I just don't think that she did any kind of accidental -
751
01:15:06,766 --> 01:15:09,066
Kate: I don't either.
Kail: - drug overdose.
752
01:15:09,066 --> 01:15:17,266
Kail: I don't believe, I don't believe that she committed suicide, even with her attempts.
753
01:15:17,266 --> 01:15:22,233
Um, I feel like she did let go of some things
754
01:15:22,233 --> 01:15:28,333
through that speech, but I don't think that she let go of it in a way that she was letting herself go.
755
01:15:28,333 --> 01:15:31,533
I think she was like, "I'm just turning over a new leaf."
756
01:15:31,533 --> 01:15:41,699
She was such a strong person that I don't believe that she wanted this, you know, for herself. I think she was ready to move forward and
757
01:15:41,699 --> 01:15:48,100
start fresh in whatever capacity that was and that's, and not a death capacity, right?
758
01:15:48,100 --> 01:15:54,066
Kate: Yeah, and I mean, reports say her friends all said she was
759
01:15:54,066 --> 01:16:00,899
really hopeful for things and she was in good spirits and she was working on new projects that were coming up and,
760
01:16:00,899 --> 01:16:05,766
and had all these plans and she was trying to start another independent production company and,
761
01:16:05,766 --> 01:16:10,400
I mean, the woman had, you know, goals and
762
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,200
I just, yeah, it's...it's just a little -
763
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:22,133
Kail: There's too many, there's too many sketchy, you know, strings here with -
Kate: I agree.
764
01:16:22,133 --> 01:16:26,699
Kail: - with the big spider on the wall.
Kate: Mm hmm, that web.
765
01:16:26,699 --> 01:16:31,366
Kail: - that I will name Kennedy now. May they rest, but -
766
01:16:31,366 --> 01:16:36,100
Kate: Allegedly. Kennedy, it's okay. Don't come at us. We're just podcast hosts!
767
01:16:36,100 --> 01:16:44,733
Kail: We're just going through some theories, but it just seems like there is something that's obvious but missing.
768
01:16:44,733 --> 01:16:51,466
Kate: So I read recently where people were asking, "Why does anyone still care about this?"
769
01:16:51,466 --> 01:16:57,433
And I thought, 'if your loved one died under mysterious circumstances, wouldn't you want to get to the bottom of it?'
770
01:16:57,433 --> 01:17:04,300
And if she was murdered and the government had something to do with it, like, that's something people should know about.
771
01:17:04,300 --> 01:17:11,800
Kail: Right, and there are many, many people out there that will spend their lifetime
772
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:16,066
trying to figure out what happened to a loved one.
Kate: Oh yeah.
773
01:17:16,066 --> 01:17:25,300
Kail: I mean, this just happened with the Brian Laundrie case. Like, if they had not come to a conclusion with that, that family
774
01:17:25,300 --> 01:17:29,633
for Gabby would have spent their lifetime, and any family would.
775
01:17:29,633 --> 01:17:37,666
They would want to know what happened because that's how...you're never going to get closure from the death of a loved one, but that's how you're going to be able to
776
01:17:37,666 --> 01:17:44,100
kind of go to bed at night, is finally knowing or having that mystery solved, right?
777
01:17:44,100 --> 01:17:48,633
Knowing that you have all the facts there of what happened, that's
778
01:17:48,633 --> 01:17:52,166
usually how people are able to continue on, right?
779
01:17:52,166 --> 01:17:58,433
Kate: And I do think, I mean, I do think Bobby ordered it. (whispers) Allegedly.
780
01:17:58,433 --> 01:18:04,966
But we wanna know what you think, so maybe when the episode posts we'll do a poll on Instagram maybe?
781
01:18:04,966 --> 01:18:06,533
Kail: Yeah, I think that's a great idea.
782
01:18:06,533 --> 01:18:11,800
Kate: Do you think it was suicide, an accident, (whispers creepily) or murder?
783
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:15,699
We'll leave you with a couple of quotes from Marilyn:
784
01:18:15,699 --> 01:18:20,466
Imperfection is - I'm gonna start that again because I couldn't even say the word "imperfection."
785
01:18:20,466 --> 01:18:27,600
"Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring."
786
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:35,666
And the last one is "Most importantly, keep smiling, because life is a beautiful thing and there's so much to smile about."
787
01:18:35,666 --> 01:18:38,100
Kail: That's so beautiful.
788
01:18:38,100 --> 01:18:44,133
Kate: So let us know what you think. You can check us out on Instagram @horrorwoodpodcast,
789
01:18:44,133 --> 01:18:47,066
check us out on Facebook @horrorwoodpodcast
790
01:18:47,066 --> 01:18:51,600
and I did just make a Facebook group called The Horrorwood Misfits.
791
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,699
Tweet at us @horrorwoodpod.
792
01:18:55,699 --> 01:19:00,266
And drop us an email at horrorwoodpodcast@gmail.com.
793
01:19:00,266 --> 01:19:03,699
Is that all of them? Are those all the social media things?
794
01:19:03,699 --> 01:19:07,333
Kail: Listen, I didn't even know we had half of those so
795
01:19:07,333 --> 01:19:14,166
we're all learning here. Um, yes I think that's all of them, and if we have more we'll shout them out at the next episode.
796
01:19:14,166 --> 01:19:18,100
Kate: And I'm going to link all the sources so you can read these things for yourself
797
01:19:18,100 --> 01:19:21,866
and draw your own conclusions because, again, it's unsolved
798
01:19:21,866 --> 01:19:32,800
and it probably will remain so until maybe 2039.
Kail: I was going to say in 2039 we'll have, like, kind of a reunion episode on this.
799
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:39,333
Kate: I mean, that would be hilarious if we were still doing this podcast in 2039. I would kind of love it.
800
01:19:39,333 --> 01:19:46,699
I feel like by then podcasts will be gone and there's going to be some other new medium that people use.
801
01:19:46,699 --> 01:19:50,066
Kail: On that note, fare thee well, Mafia Honey.
802
01:19:50,066 --> 01:19:55,100
Now, my little palate cleanser for this episode
803
01:19:55,100 --> 01:20:06,766
is - I've said "Mafia Honey" in a couple of the, well, I think all three of these these episodes on Marilyn Monroe, since we had some continuations.
804
01:20:06,766 --> 01:20:12,966
Mafia Honey is actually a maltese terrier,
Kate: Yes, he is.
805
01:20:12,966 --> 01:20:17,966
that american singer Frank Sinatra gifted Marilyn,
806
01:20:17,966 --> 01:20:24,266
and then after she passed away the dog was given to Frank Sinatra's secretary.
807
01:20:24,266 --> 01:20:28,633
Kate: Yeah, that's interesting. And she called him Maf,
808
01:20:28,633 --> 01:20:34,066
and Maf is the dog that was there in the guest cottage when she died.
809
01:20:34,066 --> 01:20:36,066
Kail: I feel like I need to get a dog.
810
01:20:36,066 --> 01:20:42,566
Kate: I want a dog so bad. We are, oh my god, you don't even understand. Well, you do.
811
01:20:42,566 --> 01:20:44,566
Kail: I do, I do.
Kate: We're trying, we're trying.
812
01:20:44,566 --> 01:20:47,533
Kail: I do think that the name Mafia Honey is badass,
813
01:20:47,533 --> 01:20:52,566
but I've I've already named my future dog and it's going to be Tater Tot Duke Silver
814
01:20:52,566 --> 01:20:54,866
so I'll call him Tate for short.
815
01:20:54,866 --> 01:21:00,766
But if I were to get another dog, I think it would be MH, baby - Mafia Honey.
816
01:21:00,766 --> 01:21:09,333
I have mixed feelings about it just because Frank Sinatra was a dick,
Kail: Right.
817
01:21:09,333 --> 01:21:13,500
Kate: and her involvement with that whole group led to her death
818
01:21:13,500 --> 01:21:17,366
and I think also I read that she...
819
01:21:17,366 --> 01:21:20,533
I feel like she initially did not want that dog.
820
01:21:20,533 --> 01:21:23,699
There was something about it, I don't remember it now, but
821
01:21:23,699 --> 01:21:32,233
there were like issues about that dog, and yeah, it just -
Kail: Well, she has the PTSD from the the dog that was killed in front of her.
822
01:21:32,233 --> 01:21:36,466
Kate: I mean it just... hoo! What a life.
823
01:21:36,466 --> 01:21:39,533
Mar! Marilyn. We love ya.
824
01:21:39,533 --> 01:21:43,066
Kail: If you're out there and you want to give us a sign,
825
01:21:43,066 --> 01:21:45,866
or, you know, a sixth sense -
826
01:21:45,866 --> 01:21:48,500
Sixth - that's really fucking hard to say.
827
01:21:48,500 --> 01:21:53,266
Kate: Sixth sense, sixth sense...that is hard.
Kail: Words are so hard. Sixth. Sense.
828
01:21:53,266 --> 01:21:57,066
Kail: How do you even say s-i-x-t-h? Sixth, right?
829
01:21:57,066 --> 01:22:00,466
Kate: Yeah. (laughs)
Kail: Sixth sense. Wow, you know what?
830
01:22:00,466 --> 01:22:06,733
Also just, again, let's just remind all of these misfits out there
831
01:22:06,733 --> 01:22:09,300
that the podcast is named
832
01:22:09,300 --> 01:22:18,000
a word that I can't hardly even say that, I've practiced in front of the mirror so many times.
Kate: It's okay, it's part of the fun.
833
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:23,566
Kail: Anyway Marilyn, listen, if you could just give us some kind of a sign or kind of
834
01:22:23,566 --> 01:22:27,400
show us how you died, like on that movie, uh,
835
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:31,899
that'd be great. Then we'll make sure that we come back to this.
836
01:22:31,899 --> 01:22:32,066
(🎵creepy music begins playing underneath🎵)
837
01:22:32,066 --> 01:22:37,200
Kate: We love you Marilyn! And we love all of you.
Kail: We do, we do.
838
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:38,766
Kail: We're all just little misfits.
839
01:22:38,766 --> 01:22:41,666
Kate: Alright, bye!
840
01:22:41,666 --> 01:22:49,033
Kail: Bye!
841
01:22:49,030 --> 01:23:10,302
(creepy music begins to fade out)