Horrorwood: True Crime in Tinseltown
Kate: Hey folks, this is Kate.
Before we get started, we just want to let you know that we recorded this episode prior to last week's news that Olivia Newton-John had passed away.
We bring this up because she happens to be a big part of this case so we wanted to clarify why we don't acknowledge her death in the episode.
Our thoughts go out to her husband and daughter and all those that loved her.
We also want to give you a heads up that this is a missing persons case and we discuss the possible theories of what might have happened
including suicide.
While it might sound like we're making light of the situation, we know this is no laughing matter.
As with all our cases, we just try to bring some lightness to an otherwise harrowing situation.
We understand that some of our listeners might be sensitive to the subject of suicide, and if that's you, you might want to skip this one.
It's totally fine, we've got other episodes for you.
And with that, let's get to the show.
Kail: (laughing) Wait, isn't that a song? "Lean back. Lean back.
Now lean to the left, lean to the...whatever" I think I'm making shit up now.
Kate: I don't know, it sounds right to me.
Kail: Katie's lifting me up right now because I had a couple meltdowns
and my meltdowns consist of singing the words 'fuck.'
Kate: And I just drink beer so I feel great!
Kail: 'Cause like, you know, sometimes you just need to say the word 'fuck.'
Kate: (laughing) And on that note
I think you should do the introduction this time.
Kail: Okay, misfits.
As we know I am definitely one of those.
Ah, welcome to
Kate: Say your name first, they don't know who you are yet.
Kail: Oh. (they both laugh)
It's been a long night and it's only 7:42 pm, and I'm Kail.
Kate: And I'm Kate.
Kail: Welcome to Horrorwood.
(creepy music begins to play)
See I've been practicing!
(voices fade into laughter)
(creepy music continues playing)
Kate: It does sound like it's getting better. Can you tell who named this podcast
and who wishes the name of this podcast would change?
Kail: Mm hmm. Let's just say Kail did not name it.
Kate: She did not.
Uh, Kail is...Kail is a little upset with the name
but I love it and it's...that's what it's going to be so
get used to it.
Kail: I think it's great. I love a role of the 'r'
(they laugh) and I'm really good at it.
Kate: If that's, if that's what it takes to get you to say it
then by all means roll those 'r's.
Kail: I'm practicing. One day soon.
Kate: Um, okay so...
I was going to talk about some heavy stuff in the beginning but
with where we are now in this evening - we
set out to record an hour and fifteen minutes ago and
we had some trouble.
So I think I want to just keep this kind of...I mean
obviously this is, this is a missing persons case and so it's not "light," but
with everything going on in the world, which I was going to touch on a bit, I think I'm just going to let that lie
for right now because
we, ah, we're...we're in a different headspace now I think, and I think it's probably more appropriate if we just go into the case.
First though, I gotta say, so I was
well I edited that third episode of Marilyn because I coughed through the entire thing.
Kail: How are you feeling by the way?
Kate: I'm much better, I'm much better.
Kail: You sound better.
Kate: I would say I'm, like, 95%.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: So thank you.
Kail: That's an 'A.'
Kate: It is. So I'm, I'm an 'A' and on my way to an 'A+.'
Kail: Excellent.
Kate: But I was just thinking like, "Man, I hope I did Marilyn justice because I know that there are a lot of diehards out there and
there was so much I had to leave out
and I, I don't know, I hope that I got everything that, like,
I wanted to get in. I hope people liked it, I hope people feel like
they got the complete story.
Kail: I feel like frankly, or honestly,
I feel like I didn't get the whole story - not because you didn't provide it
but because...what happened to Marilyn Monroe???
It's still...and there, I mean, we came up with our consensus, right?
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: But like, it made me wonder for nights in a row, I was like 'hmmm.'
Kate: I did too!
Kail: Did she? So yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying there.
Kate: Okay, yeah.
Kail: You fulfilled it, but it made me keep thinking about it which -
Kate: Good, okay.
Kail: Way to go.
Kate: Good. Okay, thank you.
Kate: So today we are going to be talking about Patrick Kim McDermott,
and if that name doesn't ring a bell
you might recognize it when I tell you that he was the on-again, off-again boyfriend of Olivia Newton-John.
Kail: Newton-John - ohhh!
Kate: Yep. 'Memba him?
Kail: Yeah, and you know what? Just so everyone knows,
um, earlier I, I was able to
connect with Katie and she was like,
"Do you want it to be a surprise or do you want me to tell you now?"
And I was like, uh uh, surprise me.
So I really had no idea, and the only reason
that I know about this person is because this weekend I was at my family, uh, for a visit...I was at my family's for a visit.
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: And I was talking about the podcast, and somebody goes, "Oh,
yeah, what about that Olivia Newton-John boyfriend?"
Kate: Wait, seriously? That's wild.
Kail: Yes! Yes.
Kail: Because I was talking about Marilyn Monroe.
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: And then they were like, "Who else are you gonna, like, what are you gonna look into?" blah blah and then they kept,
I mean, the amount of names that they...I couldn't even keep up with them. I was like, "I don't know, hold on, let me get on the doc," you know.
So they were rattling off things, and then they were giving me some great insight and some great ideas and I was like, “This is fabulous."
Kate: Great, I hope you wrote them all down.
Kail: I got my phone out and put them on my notes because I could not remember things people were saying, and I even had somebody,
I said, "Send it to me on Facebook Messenger," because -
although what's funny is I don't actually check it and -
Kate: I was gonna say, you never check Facebook Messenger.
Kail: But that's the only way, I don't have that person's, like...it was a neighbor, so I didn't have his phone number.
Kate: Okay.
Kail: So I'm friends with him on Facebook except that I never check Messenger.
Kate: Yeah.
Kail:So I will go into that I promise, after I figure out how to upload it back onto to my new phone.
So yay for me.
Kate: Yay!
Kail: Homework, homework.
Kail: Anyway, it was a great conversation.
The neighbors, my family - they were very excited.
Kate: That's wild that they that up because I hadn't heard about this guy in years and it just dawned on me. I was like, "Oh yeah, that guy."
Kail: And I barely even know what his name is, like, I don't know this story, I don't know anything, so -
Kate: Good.
Kail: - so I am surprised and I will be surprised.
Kate: That's exactly what I wanted. I wanted you to come into this cold because I want to get your honest
thought just based on what I give you.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: And I've tried to, I've tried to include everything that's out there.
So first I'll start by saying that Josie and Mel from The All Aussie Mystery Hour -
I don't know if they're still recording. They did an episode on this.
Kail: Ooh.
Kate: They are the most delightful co-hosts I have ever heard.
Number one, they're Australian, so right there, I mean, they get you with the accent.
But they just sound like they are having the best time of their lives.
They also say "zesty" a lot and I've decided I want to adopt that into my vernacular, so things are just going to be zesty tonight.
Kail: Okay, I like it.
Kail: Um, also? I really love the word delightful.
Kate: Oh, I say it a lot, I'm glad.
Kail: I don't know, I think it just makes things feel...delightful.
That was kind of generic but -
Kate: That word is aptly named.
Kail: - but we will make it zesty.
Kate: It's gonna get zesty in here.
Alright, so Patrick Kim McDermott disappeared in 2005 while on an overnight fishing trip.
Now, this case is officially closed but no one knows where he is.
Some believe he was lost at sea while others believe he faked his death and is living in Mexico.
It's all a little mysterious so let's dive in.
He was born September 18th, 1956 - I've seen it as '56 and '57 so I'm not sure exactly which one it is.
And he was born under the name Kim Chong-nam in Seoul, South Korea.
He was adopted when he was 2.
He was put up for adoption through the Holt Children's Welfare Foundation,
And an American family adopted him and so he moved to the United States at 2.
Now, not much is known about his childhood.
I couldn't find information on that, but as an adult he lived in Van Nuys, California which is a neighborhood in L.A.
It's not like Beverly Hills by any stretch, it's more
like middle class, working class.
And he was working in the TV and film industry.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: I read that he worked as a cameraman as well as a lighting technician -he was a gaffer.
But if you look him up on IMDb, he's only got a couple of credits and it's just short films, so I think he mostly worked on commercials
because those aren't necessarily on IMDb.
In 1991 he met actress Yvette Nipar.
Yvette was born in L.A. and she was a stunner.
She started modeling right after high school and eventually started getting work in commercials,
then went on to act in several TV shows. And from the late 80s to the early 2000s her career was poppin'.
She was working pretty regularly as an actress on shows like General Hospital, Days of Our Lives, RoboCop and 21 Jump Street, to name a few.
Kail: Wow.
Kate: She was around 26 and Patrick was around 34 when they met, and they'd been dating for a few months when they learned that Yvette was pregnant.
Kail: Ohhh.
Kate: So yeah, they decided to get married.
They married on March 1st, 1992 and their son Chance was born a few months later in July.
Unfortunately though, (coughs)
Kail: Okay, so you clearly don't have an 'A.' 95%?
Kail: You're at like a 'B.' I'm going to get you back to 85%
Kate: Oh, for my, for my 'monia? My 'monia.
Kail: Yeah, yeah.
Kate: Well, maybe it's like a 90%. I'm getting there, I'm getting there.
Kail: Alright. 'B+.'
Kate: Okay, I'll take it.
Um, unfortunately though it would not be happily ever after for the pair.
They divorced just over a year later in June of 1993.
Now, three years later, Patrick would meet Olivia Newton-John while working on a commercial.
The two fell for each other and began a relationship.
Kail: Well, Olivia Newton-John. I feel like though Olivia Newton-John to me is an 'A.'
And the other person, the
whatever actress, she must be a 'B' because I've never heard of her, right? So,
it's interesting how he upgraded I would say.
Kate: I don't necessarily think...I wouldn't call it an upgrade. I think she just,
she had her child so she stopped acting just a few years later.
Kail: Oh, okay.
Kate: But I mean, she was, she was doing really well and she is gorgeous.
Kail: Okay, so,
Kail: so now you could see why somebody would fall heavily for somebody who's in the industry, who meets them, they have a child, it doesn't work out.
Um, he just by chance was able to get on some sort of commercial that Olivia Newton-John was on?
Kate: Yes.
Kail: Okay.
Kail: And that's how they met, interesting.
Kate: And, I mean, he was a good looking guy, like
Kate: he could get it, he was, I mean he was obviously attracting these really beautiful, talented women so, you know, he had stuff going on for himself.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: However, as is typical with a lot of Hollywood relationships, their different schedules and unpredictable work commitments meant that they didn't always have time to see each other,
and Olivia was known to visit her Australian home often, so sometimes they weren't even on the same continent.
Their relationship lasted for nine years but it was very on-again, off-again.
I need to have a sip of this beer.
Kail: Oh!
Kail: Oh my gosh, and it's my favorite beer. You're kind of making me jealous but -
Kate: I know, I had it for you when you were here and it's the last one, sorry.
Kail: I think it's fitting.
Kate: I think so.
Kail: I had a meltdown tonight, you got a beer. (Kate chuckles)
Kate: So, despite the fact that they would sometimes break up and their relationship wasn't always consistent,
by all accounts it seems like it was a very loving relationship
and the two had a lot of respect for each other.
Olivia once called Patrick the most romantic person she'd ever met.
In August of 2000, Olivia even tried to help Patrick find his birth mother in Seoul.
Patrick said she was there for a concert, but then she kind of like wrapped things up quickly because she wanted to help him
hunt down his birth mom.
Kail: Do we have any more backstory on Patrick where, you know,
he's been here for many, many years...
did he actively seek his birth parents, or was this like a first time?
Kate: As far as I can tell this was the first and only time that he tried to find his birth mom.
Kail: Okay, and age-wise, like, they're dating, he has a
however old son.
Kate: Yeah, so he would have been in his forties at this time.
Kail: Oh okay, okay.
Kate: ...when he tried to find his mom.
Kate: So he said that the only memory he had of his time in Korea
as a toddler was playing with a wooden car that had a rope attached,
and he would pull it along. That was his one memory.
And he was worried that they wouldn't have luck finding his birth mom because he didn't have any distinguishing birthmarks -
Kail: Pictures, or?
Kate: No, he didn't have any moles or birthmarks or anything on his body.
I couldn't find anything stating he did or did not find her,
so I'm assuming he didn't because I think there would have been some kind of statement by Olivia on that, like in my research, and I just...I didn't find anything.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: Now in November of 2004,
Olivia was on the Australian show This Is Your Life,
where friends, family members, colleagues appear via video - (laughing) Kaili, what is that look?
Kail: I just can't imagine being on a show called This Is Your Life.
Like, if I was on a show like that I...well, tune in.
Kate: I feel like if I was on it,
just thinking about what people would say about me, it'd be like,
"Um, you drink a lot of champagne, you watch way too many dog videos and you should find a steady job."
It would be - mine would be an intervention instead of a tribute - like, "You need...you need help." "Okay, thanks."
Kail: Mine would be like,
"You need a clear tutorial on how to use equipment."
And then from there it would just be laughter and ridiculousness.
Kate: I think that's fitting.
Kail: Yes, I would concur.
Kate: Ah, so -
Kail: Laugh on the daily. Okay, anyway.
Kate: On the show, yes, friends and colleagues, family members - they all basically pay tribute to the guest of honor and they just tell them great things about them.
So Patrick appeared via video and had the following to say about Olivia.
I'm going to quote it, and this...you can find this online. I'll try to link it if I can.
"Hi darling. Listen,
I have one minute to tell you all the things that I want to share with you on this very special evening of yours,
and first of all, let me just start off by saying that you look absolutely stunning.
And beautiful.
And I think everybody would agree, right?
Yeah? Am I wrong?
No, you're stunning and you're beautiful.
And your voice is angelic; your vibrato is mmm - chef's kiss - perfect.
And I'm sorry I can't be there in person to share this wonderful evening with you,
but I know you're in good hands with all the people in Aus because they all love you.
I love you, the whole world loves you.
The animals love you, and let me just say that I've known you for eight wonderful years
and you are such a special person.
How can you be so compassionate, forgiving, understanding and gentle?
You are the epitome of the word "woman."
And you have taught me so much about being a better human and a better person.
I've learned so much from you just hanging around you and watching you, and just picking up your essence.
You truly are an incredible human being and someone so special to this...(long pause)
...whole planet." Okay, I had a typo there so I had to pause. It said "so special to this 'while' planet," and I was like,
"What does that mean?"
"- so special to this whole planet,
and if we could all just be a little bit like you we'd all be a little bit better off.
I love you with all my heart. Enjoy this evening and I'll talk to you later." And then he blows her a kiss and gives her a wink.
Kail: Okay listen, if I could get a quote like that I would definitely be on this show.
Kate: I mean, again, she said he was the most romantic person that she'd ever met.
Kail: Wow.
Kate: Now, while his relationship with Olivia seemed - at least on the outside - to be all lovey dovey,
his relationship with his ex- wife Yvette was far from it.
According to their divorce filing Patrick was ordered to pay $800 a month in child support to Yvette,
and at some point along the way he fell behind in these payments.
Kail: And that is not a lot.
Kate: It's really not.
Kate: I mean, 'cause I just think about when my nieces were here...
Kail: How much you spent?
Kate: I spent $800 on them in one week.
Kail: - Week, yeah.
Kate: Ugh, they eat a lot. Okay.
Kate: In 2000, Patrick filed for bankruptcy.
At the time he owed around $31,000 to creditors, so that's not even including what he owed in child support.
Court documents also indicate that Yvette and Patrick argued over visitation rights when it came to their son Chance,
and in a petition that Yvette filed in 2002, she stated Patrick had,
"a lack of parenting skills, encouraged their son to play hooky,
and had trouble controlling his anger."
Kail: Now, he's still working at this point, right? I mean, he's still doing commercial work, and whatever, industry -?
Kate: So here's the thing with that kind of work -
it's freelance, and you don't know when your next gig is gonna come, so -
Kail: Okay.
Kate: I saw it reported when he first started dating Olivia he was making six figures,
but then the very next year he only made, like, fifteen grand
for the whole year.
Kail: And it comes and goes? Okay.
Kate: Exactly.
Kate: But, I mean, that's typical with that industry, you know?
Kail: Right, right.
Kail: You can do really well one year and then you'll have an off year and -
Kate: Exactly.
Kail: So that does affect the finances and when you have to pay child support...okay, okay.
Kate: Yep.
In April of 2005, Yvette took Patrick to court over his (mispronounces) failure to make...failure. That's hard to say.
...over his failure to make child support payments.
And I saw one report that estimated he owed her around $11,000 at that time.
Kail: Was this, like, early 2000s at this point? Or 90s?
Kate: This is April of 2005.
Kail: 2005, okay.
Kate: So as a result, Patrick was ordered to make all his outstanding payments to the child services department of Los Angeles County.
That way there's more accountability so she can actually get her money.
Just a couple of months later, in the summer of 2005, Olivia was preparing to head to Australia for two months.
On June 20th, just a few days before Patrick disappeared,
he reportedly went to Olivia's to call things off.
It seemed pretty amicable. He brought her flowers, they talked. Basically he was just like,
"You're about to go away for a while. This is probably a good time to take a break." So they did.
And they were known to take breaks in their relationship so this wasn't weird.
Then on June 30th, 2005,
Patrick signed the passenger manifest as he boarded the boat Freedom for an overnight fishing trip.
When the boat returned the next day he was nowhere to be found.
Now, Patrick often went on fishing trips.
It was a favorite pastime of his so he wasn't some newbie going out there. He loved himself a good halibut, you know what I'm sayin'?
Kail: Yeah.
Kate: And he booked the trip solo.
I couldn't find anywhere if that was usual for him or if he typically went with somebody.
I read in one source that he sometimes brought his son with him, but no one was on him - no one was with him on this particular trip.
Kail: On the boat. Okay.
Kail: Unlike, um, another thing that I talked about this weekend was Natalie Wood.
Kate: Ooh, yeah. Oh, we're gonna cover her.
Kail: I cannot wait to cover her because there is so much, and then
Kail: I didn't realize that Christopher Walken was on the boat as well.
Kate: Oh yeah.
Kail: So I kind of didn't have all the, you know, all the facts, and
anything with a boat now I'm so captivated.
I'm so captivated by it because
it's hard to know, I feel like, um, yeah,
because it's water, it's open water. That's... that's...things get real deep and dark out there.
Kate: It's creepy.
I will say the ladies from Morbid - shoutout to Ash and Alaina...oh my god, do you want to be friends?
They did I think the the most excellent episode on Natalie Wood. I mean, they -
the things that they found...so I I want us to cover it, but I have to wait a while so I don't have their episode in my head.
Kail: Fresh, yeah, got it.
Kate: But they did such an amazing job. You should all go listen to that.
So besides Patrick, on this boat
there were 22 other passengers and five crew men -
three of which were licensed crew captains.
Kail: Okay, wow. That's a lot, actually.
Kate: The Freedom was an eighty-five foot sportfishing boat with a capacity for eighty-six bunks,
so it's not huge.
And compared to how many people it could hold only a third of it was filled.
I'm going to post a picture of the boat on Instagram so you can see. It's really, it's kind of small.
At 10:00 pm that evening, the boat departed from the 22nd St. landing in San Pedro, California.
It traveled to San Clemente Island arriving at 5:00 am July 1st.
The passengers fished all day at San Clemente Island,
and police have determined that Patrick did socialize and fish with the others on the trip.
People remembered seeing him and talking to him.
Kail: So, clearly still alive.
Kate: Yes.
Kate: Now the boat does not touch shore at the island, so you cannot get on or off the boat.
You're just out there, you're catching your halibut, you're thinking, "Life is great, look at all these fish."
Kail: And then I'm gonna eat them later.
Kate: Yep.
Kate: Around 1:30 or 2:00 pm on the afternoon of July 1st,
the boat began making its way back towards San Pedro.
Now according to Frank Liversedge,
the dock manager at the 22nd St. landing,
there's a point three miles off the San Pedro lighthouse where there's a buoy called a turning buoy.
And when the boat reaches this point, the crew goes down to the bunk room and wakes all the passengers up,
and then all the passengers go up to the galley. They pay their galley bills for food, fish cleaning, whatever else they owe.
And the boat keeps a record of this for tax records.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: Patrick's galley bill was paid.
He had ordered two hot dogs and a coke, and records show it was paid for.
I'm going to have another sip of beer.
Kail: I think that's a great idea. I kind of wish I had an Oberon right here.
Kate: Oh man, it's so good. Also, it's very hot in this closet.
Kail: Ohhh, and it's like a hundred dgrees there, right?
Kate: Hooo, it's warm.
Kate: I don't know that it's 100 right now. Today was a little cooler, like 80 probably.
So at this point everyone is awake and congregates in the galley at the back of the boat. No one goes back down for anything because they're just a few minutes away from shore.
The crew is also at the back of the boat
because they're getting the lines out, and the buoys, and getting the boat ready to dock.
Liversedge stated that based on the fact his galley bill was paid, as far as they know he was on the boat in that last half hour of the trip,
and it would be pretty difficult for someone to go overboard unnoticed because everyone is out there together.
Kail: Everybody was out there, right.
Kate: Also, no one heard anything. They didn't hear any splashes or anyone yelling for help or anything like that.
Kail: It'd be pretty noticeable, I think.
Kate: Yeah, I mean, it's a small group.
Kail: You think about somebody jumping into a pool and you hear that splash - you're going to hear it,
in open water as well.
Kate: For sure.
Kate: No head count was taken as the passengers departed the boat which seems weird, but that was standard for them.
The galley tab essentially served as the head count.
Kail: Really?
Kate: Yeah. So to me it's like, a simple headcount. You only have to count up to 28. I find it kind of baffling that they don't do that.
Kail: I feel like that's not even legal. How can they just use that as the head count for something that's, that's like a company, right?
Kate: Yeah, I don't know.
Kail: I always think of Home Alone and headcount issues.
Kate: I think the same thing! I'm like, you just, you gotta make sure it's the person that you think it is.
Kail: And as a teacher I'm constantly counting heads.
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: I gotta make sure those kids are accounted for, right?
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: So I'm constantly making sure that Kevin's here.
Kate: But apparently on the Freedom sportfishing boat it's not the case.
You just, you pay your bill and you're good to go.
Now Frank Liversedge - again, he's the dock manager - he said that in the forty-five years the company had been there they had never lost a passenger,
like, no one had gone overboard.
Kail: That they know of, because they're counting by their bills, but okay.
Kate: Well, this is the first time anything had been reported of someone missing, so I think this is the first time that a passenger has gone missing.
Kail: Okay.
Now some things were left on the boat and turned in to Frank's office.
I couldn't find anywhere who turned in the items; I assume it was a crew member as they were going through cleaning the boat, but I didn't find anything on that.
Kail: Were they Patrick's items, or do we know that yet?
Kate: Well let's find out.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: Frank's policy is that he doesn't go through anything that's turned in to his office. He just leaves it until someone comes to claim it,
because he doesn't want anyone to think, like,
"Oh, you, you know, you took my stuff, you know, whatever.
Kail: Right.
Kate: That's his thing, he doesn't touch anything.
And again, he never lost a passenger, so items left behind are not necessarily...it's not going to raise suspiciion and make you think, "Oh, this person is missing," or whatever.
Now, Olivia was in Australia at the time, and they were broken up
so she was not immediately aware that he had disappeared.
Yvette, on the other hand,
was expecting him on July 6th because he had a visitation scheduled with his son, Chance.
Patrick did not show up.
Kail: Oh no.
After a few days of not hearing from him, Yvette reportedly drove down to the dock on July 11th
and noticed his car still in the parking lot.
I've also seen that she didn't drive down there, but that she...
when she called the office at the dock and spoke with Frank,
Kail: She called them and they said it was still there.
Kate: She described the car and
Kate: Frank said, "Oh yeah, that is still here."
So I don't know which scenario happened
Kail: And nobody really found that alarming I'm guessing because, I mean, these days - well,
even probably then you're not looking for -
Kate: Oh no, it was alarming.
Kail: Well, I mean, but it wasn't alarming until she called, right? Okay, okay.
Kate: Right.
Kail: So, that's the other thing is it probably was sitting there a few days
and that's more time away from possible, you know, body searches and whatnot.
So I'm just kind of putting the timeline together.
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: And things are not looking good.
Kate: So she must have known either about the fishing trip beforehand or just knew that this was a place he often went,
to know to call them.
Frank stated that Yvette's phone call on July 11th, again, yes, like we just said,
was the first time anyone at the dock became aware that Patrick was missing.
Yvette reportedly asked if Patrick's things were there and Frank said, "Well,
you know, there were some items turned in," but,
you know. he hadn't gone through them. He doesn't do that.
So he asked her if he had her permission to open things up and she was like, "Yeah, open that shit up."
So, a tackle box was one of these items and inside was Patrick's fishing license,
so this definitely belonged to him.
A fanny pack had also been turned in
that contained Patrick's wallet with his ID, so this was definitely his,
and there were also some fishing rods found that they assume belonged to Patrick as well.
Kail: So whatever happened, he didn't have these items on him at the time.
Kate: Correct, they were left on the boat.
Kate: Now Frank Liversedge said he called the police and the Coast Card after -
(corrects herself) Coast Guard -
after discovering these items belonged to a passenger that was missing.
So Frank kind of became the spokesperson for the whole crew.
Kail: Right, okay.
Kate: I watched an interview with him where he describes the boat, he goes through the boat's schedule, what happens at what times,
he talks about his employment there and how long he's been on the job,
and I find him very credible. He's matter-of-fact,
he speaks in a sort of gruff but warm voice, like a grandpa.
I just think of him as a lovable grandpa.
Kail: I think of that as a captain of a boat. That makes sense to me.
Rough, lovable voices.
They should...they belong on a boat.
Kate: He's exactly who I would want to be running a dock.
He's got gray hair, a mustache, he wears glasses...
Kail: I love a good 'stache.
Kate: In the interview he's wearing a blue and white button-up shirt with sharks all over it,
and I'm like, "Yes, get it Frank." if I managed a dock I would too be wearing a shark shirt and probably matching shark socks.
Now, in August of 2005, a few weeks after Patrick disappeared,
an article came out in The Age which is an Australian newspaper.
The Age is considered a newspaper of record, which means it is recognized as a major national newspaper with a large circulation
and is considered authoritative and independent.
Kail: Noted.
Kate: So newspapers of record include some of the oldest and most widely respected newspapers in the world.
So The Age is one of these.
It's a daily paper; it's been published since 1854.
It is known for its investigative reporting and its journalists have won dozens of Walkley Awards, which is Australia's most prestigious journalism prize.
So it's been around a while and it's taken seriously.
Now in this article dated August 29th, 2005, just a few weeks after Patrick has gone missing,
they state that a fisherman who was on the Freedom the same trip as Matrick - as Patrick Mcdermott -
claims the crew realized Patrick was missing while the boat was still at sea.
Kail: Wait a minute.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: This completely contradicts what Frank said.
Kail: Oh yeah.
Kate: The fisherman, who wishes to only be referred to as "Doug,"
4
reportedly gave an interview to NBC with this information.
He said that the crew realized he was missing and then conducted an extensive search on the boat but couldn't find Patrick.
Doug claims that the crew called Patrick's name five or six times over the loudspeaker to pay his galley bill.
Kail: But, the galley bill was paid.
Kate: Right.
Kate: So if what Doug is saying is true,
it would confirm that Patrick was on the boat at least long enough to run up a food bill for two hot dogs and a coke.
Frank Liversedge said that according to boat records, Patrick's bill had been paid.
Kail: Let me just quip in here. I would like everyone to know
that I do not want my last supper to be two hot dogs and a coke.
Kate: Oh my god, I literally have that as my ending comment for this episode. Amazing.
Kail: We're so connected.
Kate: We are.
Kail: But can you imagine? First of all, I don't eat hot dogs, so that would be a problem in itself.
Kate: True.
Kail: And I do love a Coca-Cola Classic -
Kate: (laughing) I love that you say the whole name of it.
Kate: It's come up in a couple of episodes now.
Kail: I know.
Kail: It's funny because it makes me sound like I have them all the time but I don't.
Kate: So Doug, this fisherman, goes on to say,
"They actually searched the boat pretty extensively. They went down to the bunk area and all around the boat."
And when asked if he thought Patrick could have hidden somewhere, Doug replied,
"Hiding on the boat? No, I don't think there is anywhere he could have hid on the boat. I think he was missing at that point.
And then he added, "It was a very professionally run boat."
I can't find the footage from the NBC interview anywhere, so I'm only going by what this Australian newspaper reported.
Kail: Which was very credible and had a lot of rewards. Okay. Awards, I mean.
Kate: Exactly. If any of you listening have seen it or come across it let us know. I want to watch it. Tag us or email us or something
@horrorwoodpodcast and/or horrorwoodpodcast@gmail.com.
Now, another fisherman came forward according to this paper The Age,
and his name was Hal Roman.
He claims that just two days after the trip ended,
the boat company called him asking if he remembered Patrick,
but Frank Liversedge said no one at the dock was aware of Patrick's absence until Yvette called on July 11th,
ten days after the trip ended.
So someone's lying.
Kail: Yeah.
Kate: And also, Patrick was a regular on these fishing trips, and Frank stated that he recognized him because he came there often.
So if I'm Frank, why would I lie about when the boat company discovered Patrick was missing?
Especially when it's someone you kind of know?
And in these situations when you have family involved and people looking for him, it's like, why would you lie about something like that?
Kail: Frankie what's going on?
Kate: So The Age reported that Hal came forward in the U.S. press with this information about the boat company calling him, but
I could not find it anywhere.
I've only seen it in the Australian paper. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, I just couldn't find it.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: According to The New York Post another fisherman by the name of Tony Mayo - which,
if your name is Tony Mayo you have to be a fisherman.
Kail: Wait, wait. Can we define that further?
Like, when I think of mayo I think of mayonnaise and that does not seem like it would -
Kate: (impersonating a male voice) I'm Tony Mayo. I gotta catch these fish.
Halibut!
Kail: I'm thinking...okay.
Kate: Mackerel!
Kail: Okay, alright. Tony Mayo, I gotta catch some fish. Okay.
Kate: He gave Interview to The Daily Breeze which is a daily paper in Torrance, California.
And in it Tony claimed he spoke with Patrick early in the trip and that Patrick had loaned him a fishing lure.
Tony said when he went looking for him later to thank him he couldn't find him.
I tried to find the article in The Daily Breeze but unfortunately it predates the articles that are digitally archived.
They only go back to 2016, the older archives are in the Torrance Public Library,
and I don't live there, and I don't have a library card for there,
so I'm only going by what The New York Post says.
Kail: Fair.
Kate: So the Coast Guard interviewed the passengers from the trip and asked if any of them could remember actually seeing Patrick
walk off the boat once it docked.
And although a few of them said they thought they saw him leave, the Coast Guard determined that none of these supposed sightings were credible.
Kail: I'm beginning to wonder, did he even make it onto the boat, or is he already in Mexico as they might claim? As some people might think.
Kate: He signed the passenger manifest, boarding the boat at 10:00 pm.
Kail: Oh, that's right.
Kate: I know, I wish I could have found a picture of the manifest 'cause I really tried to find that. I couldn't find it.
Meanwhile, Olivia Newton-John was in Australia at the time Patrick disappeared and she didn't even hear the news until a couple of weeks later when her assistant called to tell her.
Both Olivia and Patrick are known to be very private, so
she didn't make any statements right away.
Plus I'm sure she wanted to respect his son's privacy because Chance was only thirteen years old at the time.
He was just a kid.
Can you imagine what he must have been going through? Like, 13 is a - that's a pivotal time.
Kail: It is, as a teenage - and especially a boy -
Kate: And that's your dad.
Kail: That time era, like the frame, the frame of
'okay, he doesn't make it to my visit, so that's alarming,'
and then trying to figure out, like, wait, his mom probably told him
his car's at this dock.
Kate: I mean, who knows what she told him.
Kail: Right. Or just the way that things unfold. And by now, I mean, he's old enough to have researched things that have happened, so
holding on to that for so long without having things that are solved...that's a lot of trauma.
Kate: I don't know, I mean, they did come to a conclusion in 2008, but -
Kail: I'm glad they did because I haven't so far.
Kate: Yeah, I don't know. So Olivia and her own daughter, who had known Patrick since she was 10, I mean, she kind of grew up with him around,
I think part of Olivia's, you know,
being quiet was to protect both kids involved.
Kail: Right, right.
Kate: Hold on, I have to back up because I'm very lost in my notes.
Kail: I'm often lost...without notes.
Kate: So seven weeks after Patrick's disappearance, Olivia stated for the first time,
and she said, "Out of respect for his family I have chosen not to make any public statements until now.
For those of us who know and love him, it has been a truly heartbreaking experience and we've chosen to deal with it privately.
I'm hopeful that my treasured friend is safe and well, and I'm grateful to the officials who are working so hard to find Patrick, whom I love very much.
Kail: Aw.
Kate: I can't even begin to put myself in her position, or Yvette's position, or the kids' positions. You have to be so...you have to feel so helpless.
Kail: Yeah, and that was such a respectful statement, not just in in her own light but also in Yvette's light, and
anyone who's associated with him.
Kate: Well Olivia got a lot of flack for that, because they were like, "treasured friend?" blah blah blah,
because they assumed that the two of them had been together.
Kail: That they were still together.
Kate: She got a lot of heat for it.
Shortly after Patrick's disappearance,
the TV show Extra got a tip
that Patrick had been spotted in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.
So they hired private investigator John Nazarian to go down there and check it out.
Nazarian is a famed Hollywood "investigator to the stars,"
and he was the first P.I. to work on the case.
Nazarian spoke with several people trying to find Patrick's whereabouts
and eventually his search led him to a bar called The Sandbar.
The owner of the bar told Nazarian that he recognized Patrick from a missing persons photo and had definitely seen him.
And the bartender said, "Yeah, he sat right here at the bar and drink a mango margarita."
Kail: But when? They're saying after this whole boating incident?
Kate: Yes, yes, because they recognized him from the missing persons photo.
Nazarian also spoke with the owners of Marina's Cafe
and they said that Patrick had been there with a "mystery blonde woman."
And what I have to say to that is, Kail, was it you?
Kail: Um, only in my dreams.
Kate: I don't know if you'd want to dream about that.
Kail: Ah, but I do have a question.
Kate: What's your question?
Kail: Well, you know, I do, I mean, listen, I've always wanted to, like,
be on a movie where I had to wear a scarf or a disguise with the, you know, with the
Kate: I mean, who doesn't?
Kail: ...the, like, detective jacket.
Kate: Obviously.
Kail: And I've always kind of wanted to wear nothing underneath.
Kate: That's where we differ. (laughs)
Kail: I don't know if, like, I don't know if for some reason I want to, like,
find out something or if I'm just like helping someone but I've always had that kind of notion to want to
wear the scarf, the sunglasses. And, you know, it's on the movies so I probably just see it and in my mind I want that, so -
Kate: Why would you be helping someone naked under a trench coat?
Kail: Because I think it's merging two ideas together, like,
I've always wanted to wear a trench coat with, um, with nothing underneath it.
Kail: You laugh.
Kate: (laughing) Because I, number one, would never do this, but two,
I feel like if there's someone in dire straits and I've got to go help them my first thought is not "let me take off my clothes."
Kail: Well, okay, so you know how when you get nervous and somebody tells you to imagine everybody in their underwear?
Kate: So you decide you're gonna be the person in your underwear?
Kail: I always think that Sherlock Holmes had this magnificent trenchcoat on, but underneath he probably just had no clothes on, because it just makes it funnier for me as the
envisionary, right? As the person who's thinking about him solving all these mysteries,
and the little mystery would be he's fully nude underneath.
But anyway, that's one thing, and so I think it merges into this desire to want to, you know,
solve some mystery with the scarf and the sunglasses and the trench coat.
But my question -
Kate: Oh yes, the question.
Kail: - about him being in Cabo San Lucas is what might be the motive? Is the motive he caught a lot of halibut and he wants to have some tacos down there? Or, like,
what's with the blonde? It wasn't me.
Kate: Okay, just checking.
Kail: If this was in 2005 I would have been right out of college.
Kate: It does sound like something you could possibly do, I'm just saying.
Kail: Who knows what - actually, it could have been me.
Kail: Yeah, my question is just what would that motive be?
Kate: Well, we'll get into it.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: So Kathy Aviles who - Aviles - who is a local reporter in Mexico,
she also spoke with the owners of the cafe.
And the female owner - I think, I believe it was a husband and wife team -
she said Patrick had definitely been there. She remembered him distinctly because he went on and on about how great her fish tacos were.
Kail: Incredible, I just talked about that.
Kate: I mean, when you find a great fish taco it is something to rave about, so I do feel him on this.
So the cafe owner said that Patrick had left behind a visor and it did have some gray hair in it.
So Kathy, the reporter, sent it to the Coast Guard to be tested for DNA,
but the Coast Guard said it had no value as evidence so they didn't test it and they sent it back.
Kail: You know...
Kate: I don't know what made them determine that it wasn't worth testing, because I feel like
just test it!
If it's not a match, it's not a match but at least you'll know.
Kail: I don't get many things in life but I certainly don't get this.
Kate: Like, how hard is that? Test it!
Kail: Like, what is the harm?
Kate: Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Just test it, find out.
Kail: And then I always wonder, when it comes to circumstances like this,
is it laziness? Is it cost?
Is it they just want to go move on, move forward from a case?
Or are they protecting someone? I mean, you know?
Kate: I have no idea.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: So Nazarian, the P.I., he spent months on the case but never found Patrick.
He does not think he drowned though.
He said the boat was just too small for no one to notice.
And he believes Patrick wanted a new life. He said,
"I think he just walked off the boat and nobody noticed him.
He split from Monterrey, Mexico with some German girl."
Because apparently he decided the mystery blonde woman was German.
Kail: So Kail, I guess you're off the hook.
Kail: It's not me!
Kail: Patrick, are you out there?
Would you like to come on our podcast? You can say the word "hor-ror" if you'd like.
Kate: In the summer of 2006, Dateline gets on the case.
They spoke with Australian journalist Nick Papps, who was based in Los Angeles at the time of Patrick's disappearance.
His sources were telling him Patrick had been spotted in Cabo San Lucas as well as the nearby town of Todos Santos.
So now we've got multiple sources saying they have seen this guy in Cabo.
So Dateline goes down to Mexico and they too are led to the bar as well as the cafe that I mentioned earlier.
Eduardo Mejia, the son of the cafe owner,
said he recognized Patrick from a photo a reporter had shown him, so I'm assuming that was Kathy because
she's the one who spoke with his parents.
He told Dateline that the man he believes to be Patrick
had changed his appearance a bit from what he looked like in the photo.
Kail: No salt and pepper?
Kate: Reportedly he dyed his hair black, but I don't know.
Kate: He said he made some "modifications" to his hair and face, so I'm thinking, yeah,
hair dye, face shaved, you know, I don't know.
Kail: Mm hmm.
Kate: The reason he knew the man looked a little different is because after Eduardo's encounter with that reporter,
a friend took him to see Patrick.
Eduardo said, "The first thing he did was when I told him that some people came to ask for him,
he grabbed a black bag from his car,
sat down on a table, took out a checkbook, and then he tells me
'how much does your silence cost?'"
"I don't want money," I answered him.
Eduardo said he assured the man he would not tell anyone where he was.
Eduardo went on to say, "He is not interested in talking with anyone.
He is not interested in giving a trace or a sign that he is doing well or not.
I can tell you he's doing well."
Kail: That's interesting. One, because he had difficulty, obviously, paying for some child support,
and he owed $11,000 or more on that, and then
two - I mean, he did pay his hot dog bill.
Kate: Right.
Kail: These are the types of times where I wonder,
'Is this just someone posing so that they can be in a story?'
Kate: That's the thing, we don't know.
Someone claiming to be him told Eduardo he doesn't want to be found.
So after this the trail ran cold.
So Dateline hired private investigator Philip Klein.
Now Philip Klein is a whole character.
He was based in Texas, and I'm, I'm not clear how Dateline found this guy but he is a real vibe
which you'll see later.
Kail: I love a good vibe.
Kate: Who doesn't?
Kate: So Klein's team includes himself, his wife Inga,
and a former L.A. County Sheriff's officer, er deputy, named Gil Martinez.
So Klein sends Gil on a fishing trip on the Freedom to sort of retrace Patrick's footsteps.
Klein asked Gil when he got back if there was any possibility of going overboard without someone noticing, and Gil said, "Yeah, a few times.
It would have been possible to go over the side but not the back."
Kail: Without a sound and without, kind of, any noticeability of -?
Kate: Possibly.
Kate: But after reviewing Gil's findings and going over witness interviews,
Klein decided Patrick had to be alive,
so he created a website called FindPatrickMcDermott.com.
I'm going to save you some time right now, the site's since been taken down so there's no point in going to it.
Kail: Damn it.
Kate: Klein's plan was to track the hits to the site
and then by studying where those hits were coming from he believed he could track down Patrick,
which is kind of an interesting theory.
Kail: Yeah.
Kate: The site also collected tips on any sightings of Patrick, so all these tips start flooding in, including ones placing Patrick in Mexico.
Kail: They're lining up.
Kate: Klein interviewed a fisherman that had been on the same trip as Patrick. He went by the name "Tobar."
Kail: Tobar?
Kate: Tobar stated that he saw Patrick come up to the galley when everyone came up to pay their tab just a few minutes before they docked,
and then he said Patrick used the restroom and then went back down.
Now remember, Frank Liversedge said there's no reason for anyone to go back down at that point.
Then Klein traveled to Van Nuys where Patrick had been living and interviewed his neighbors,
and a woman by the name of Wendy saidm "he was quiet but had an attitude."
A man said he knew Patrick had been struggling financially,
another man by the name of Scott said he loved his son, his son was his whole world.
And then Klein asked him about Yvette, and Scott said that he knew the relationship was strained, and that she was trying to get it so that he didn't have visitation or his visits had to be supervised,
and they'd been battling about that.
Kail: Was Patrick a good swimmer?
Kate: That I don't know.
Kate: But my question to you is how often do you talk to your neighbors?
And do they have details about your private life?
Kail: Today one just came over to talk to me about where he placed the packages that had been delivered,
so I guess as often as today.
But what's wild is that that neighbor lives two houses down,
and the houses on either side of us I
to this day still don't know either of their names.
So there's that.
Kate: Yeah, I didn't speak to my neighbors when I lived in L.A. at all.
Couldn't give you a first name, couldn't tell you what they did for living, nothing.
So this is a lot of information that these neighbors have on him which just strikes me as weird, I don't know.
Klein asked another neighbor if he thought Patrick could have killed himself
and the answer was, "Oh no, Patrick thought too much of himself. I think he just bailed and figured his son would get his life insurance policy.
Kail: Ah.
Kate: So then Klein's like, "Aha! That's it! Life insurance!"
So he interviewed another passenger from the Freedom who went by the name Casey, who just happened to mention that Patrick had made a joke about going overboard and scamming insurance,
which is convenient that Klein was able to find a passenger who just happened to be sitting on that information. I don't know, seems a little sus, my opinion.
Kail: I mean, crazier things have happened, but
it's funny how a lot of these kinds of stories, there is like, it's almost like foreshadowing, but it's not. It's like
they say something that someone just randomly holds onto and it comes out later.
Kate: Yeah, but I mean, yeah I don't know. So maybe that happened? I don't know.
Then the website that Klein set up started getting hits from Cabo San Lucas,
and Klein was like, "That's it, he's alive. He's got to be in Cabo."
Kail: Of course.
Kate: So he and his team go to Cabo and they find out there's a big sportfishing tournament coming up, and Klein's like, "Bingo!"
He says to his team, "This matches his psychological profile.
He likes expensive women, he likes expensive toys - big boats! And he loves to fish.
Just keep your eye on their faces. That's all I want you to do is just keep looking at their faces, okay?" End of quote.
Kate: (laughing) Oh my god.
Kail: He is a vibe.
Kate: He is.
Kate: He's feeling a lot of things.
Kail: I'm, I'm actually picturing him and if he were to look like what's in my head it would be perfect.
Kate: Live in that vision, girl.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: So then Klein and his wife and Gil,
they just go around like, "You see him? Right height, gray hair. Yeah, could be him." "What about that guy?
Between the palm trees?" "Oh no, you know that's not him."
So then Klein says,
"Oh, he's got to be on one of these two boats. They're the only ones left in the tournament we haven't checked, he's got to be on one of them."
Everyone, he was not on the boats.
Kail: Klein's determined, I'll tell you that much.
Kate: Klein is pissed. He says, "I'm kind of frustrated now,
because you know it's always when you're on the hunt, and you're hunting people,
it's always very frustrating when you go on the hunt
and you don't get your...(breaks into laughter) I can't even get this out.
Kail: I hope he has on a vest and a cowboy hat and some cowboy boots,
because that's the only way I envision him.
Kate: I feel you on this.
Kail: I hope he only has that little bit of a tummy, and some glasses and some gray hair,
Kail: and basically I just described my dad, so... (both start laughing)
(laughter, then a THUD) Kate: (distant) Oh my god.
Kail: Haha!
Kate: Sorry everybody, my microphone just spun around like the exorcist. Okay, um,
I'm going to try to read that again,
and I'm going to try not to do the voice I feel he's doing.
He says, "I'm kind of frustrated right now, because you know it's always...(breaks into laughter) I can't.
...because you know it's always when you're on the hunt, and you're hunting people...(both laugh)
Okay, I give up. Anyway,
he's pissed, he's in his feelings, that's all you need to know.
Kail: Because he was on the hunt.
Kate: So then good ol' Keith Morrison starts asking Klein some questions.
I'm just going to read this to you because, well, you'll see.
Keith: How do you know he didn't fall off? Klein: Well, number one, let's set it up.
He went up there and paid his tab.
Keith: How do you know that?
Klein: Because of the witnesses that the, the gentleman that took the, the galley tab and the galley tab itself. He paid it.
Keith: Well we know the galley tab was paid but we don't know he paid it, do we?
Klein: We do know he paid it.
Keith: How do we know? Klein: Because we had a young man tell me personally 'that's my signature.' He paid the tab.
Keith: Now he -
and then Klein cuts him off and says,
"He looked me...(starts to laugh) god, I just cannot take this guy seriously. Klein says,
"He looked me right in the eyes."
Keith says, "He wouldn't go on camera, but he told you -"
Klein says, "He didn't want to be on TV."
Keith: You looked at him and heard him?
Klein: Right in the eyes.
Keith: Saw that -
Klein: Heard him, saw him, looked him right in the eyes.
Keith: Totally believable?
Klein: My - I'm - yes, I believe him.
I'm going to post a link to this entire transcript because it is an entertaining read to say the least.
Kail: I'm looking forward to it.
But I'm going to make sure that I lis - that I read it in your voice, of Klein's voice.
Kate: So let's talk more about that galley tab because that seems to be the sticky widget here.
The tab was indeed paid.
It was for two hot dogs and a coke, as I mentioned earlier.
Kail: Classic.
Kate: But when the Coast Guard interviewed the boat's cook,
he said he didn't specifically remember if it was Patrick that paid the tab, and that it's
possible someone else paid it because that happens frequently.
Kail: So - question. Because he had done these boat rides or excursions before, did everybody basically know him on there? Like the staff, all the workers?
Because when they're asking these questions, and these people answer "yeah, he paid it," how do they know it's really him?
Kate: Well that's the thing, I mean, the cook said, "I couldn't tell you if he specifically paid it or someone paid it for him."
Kail: Okay.
Kate: None of the other passengers on the boat, though, ever mentioned anything about paying his tab
which is weird. I feel like if someone had paid it for him, then when they were interviewed they would've been like, "Oh, well I paid that tab."
Kail: They would have mentioned it.
Kate: End of story.
Kail: Unless he hired somebody to pay it
Kail: when he was escaping or got off the boat or who knows what.
Kate: I don't know.
Kate: Number one, he didn't have a lot of money, so I don't foresee him paying off someone
enough to the point where
that person would lie for him to the Coast Guard. I don't see it.
Kail: Or maybe he did have a lot of money. He wasn't paying his child support and maybe he was just banking some money.
Kate: I mean, he owed $31,000 to creditors and filed bankruptcy, so yeah,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna nix that theory.
Kail: Okay, okay. Fair.
Kate: Even more interesting is that the cook told the Coast Guard
the hot dogs were only served at night
as the boat was heading out - not during the day.
Kail: Wait.
Kate: I don't know what was served during the day but it wasn't on Patrick's tab.
Kail: So he was definitely on it at night,
Kate: Mm hmm.
Kail: if he in fact was the person who got the two hot dogs and the Classic.
Kate: Now Australians just haven't been able to let this case go, mainly because Olivia Newton-John is like royalty there.
So there have been a couple of gossip magazines claiming they have evidence that Patrick is indeed in Mexico,
and there's usually at least one story a year that comes out about the case.
In 2017, one of these magazines called New Idea contacted Nazarian. Remember him?
He was the P.I. that Extra had hired.
Kail: Mm hmm.
Kate: New Idea claimed that someone had found Patrick in Mexico, to which Nazarian said, "Great. Where's the photo?"
And the reporter said, "Oh, there isn't one."
To which Nazarian replied, "Are you fucking kidding me?
This guy's in Mexico for twelve years in the era of camera phones and nobody can get a picture of him?
What is he? The Loch Ness monster? Sasquatch?!
So, suddenly - I hope you liked that impression, I'm trying to do all the investigators.
Kail: Also really liked that someone used the word "Sasquatch."
Kate: That was my favorite part.
So, suddenly, a blurry photo turns up of a man with long gray hair and his skin was similar in tone to Patrick's,
and he was also photographed with a blonde woman,
and witnesses said they saw Patrick with a blonde woman, so
New Idea was like, "This is our guy and his blonde German lover. Here's proof.
But we need someone to verify it."
So they hire private investigator Charlie Parker
of San Antonio.
Charlie Parker compared the blurry photo to photos of Patrick when he was with Olivia,
and he was like, "Yep, that's our guy. Know how I know?
Because the eyes and the widows' peaks are the same in all the pictures."
Kail: Ohh.
Parker also used a method of measuring the distance from the tips of the ears to the neck in each photo and found that they matched.
Kail: Those are good details.
Kate: Well, Nazarian wasn't having any of it.
And he was also pissed that Klein and Parker had been hired after him, because I guess it hurt his ego.
Kail: Oh, Nazarian sounds so extra.
Kate: They are all very extra.
Kate: Of the two men he said,
"Did you see what Dateline ran about Klein?
They just showed a bunch of shots of him down in Mexico eating tacos on Dateline's dollar.
No real sign of McDermott.
And Nazarian said when he mentioned to the reporter of New Idea that there was no picture, and she was like, "Oh yeah, we should totally get a picture of him.
Nazarian says, "Boom! All of a sudden there was a picture. And we get it verified by some joker who measures ears? Ears!
Kail: I don't know, but I might measure my ears tonight, just so I know.
Kate: Oh my god. I picture Nazarian - I feel like he is the P.I. from the 40s with the cigar hanging out of his mouth.
Kail: Yes, absolutely. I hope he looks like that
Kate: And the white button-down shirt. He's got the tie, he's got the trench coat and the hat -
Kate: - hanging on a coat rack by the door.
The door has "Private Detective" really big across it.
Kail: Oh yes.
Kate: And he's on a black rotary-dial phone, and he's like, "That joker measures ears! Ears, I tell ya!"
Folks, this might come as a huge shocker:
the picture was not of Patrick.
It was confirmed to be Wes Stobbe, a man from Canada who'd been vacationing with his blonde wife, Bridget, in Mexico.
Kail: Ah, don't ya know.
Kate: Wes was like, "I look nothing like Patrick McDermott.
For one thing, I'm not Korean.
And this is my wife, Bridget, not some mysterious German lover."
He said it was bizarre to see his face in all these tabloids suddenly.
He had no idea he was being photographed, which is really scary when you think about it. I'm gonna try not to.
And he said when he goes back to Mexico - because that's where they vacation - he's going to have a shirt made that just says:
"Not Patrick" so there's no confusion.
There was a Coast Guard investigative service case regarding Patrick's disappearance
and it did not find any evidence of a homicide, suicide, accident or hoax.
So like, what the fuck was it, then?
Kail: A disappearance? Ooh. Maybe he's in Mars right now.
Kate: I mean, it's just, It's bizarre.
A separate investigation by the United States Coast Guard examined the conduct of the fishing vessel and didn't find anything nefarious or suspicious with that.
And in both cases they concluded that McDermott was likely "lost at sea."
Those cases were closed in 2006 and 2008 respectively.
Now, the Sydney Morning Herald, another newspaper of record in Australia,
reported in 2010 on some information that was found in the Coast Guard documents about the case.
I preface this with these Coast Guard documents were obtained by radaronline.com and the Australian magazine New Idea,
both of which are celebrity gossip outlets.
Kail: Ok.
Kate: So I'm a little surprised that the Sunday Morning - the Sydney Morning Herald - reported on it,
but they are a credible news source so there could be truth to what was revealed in these documents.
Already though, there's an error in the first paragraph of the article. It says that Olivia didn't know Patrick had gone fishing until she received a call from him on July 12th.
We know that call did not come from Patrick,
so my guess is that was her assistant, because obviously if it was Patrick then they could have traced it, he'd have been found, there'd be no case.
So these two gossip outlets claim that in the Coast Guard documents,
Patrick had attempted suicide once before, that he had purchased a gun -
however, that gun has never been found -
and that he inquired about increasing his life insurance policy from $100,000 to $500,000 less than three months before he disappeared.
People believe he disappeared so his son could cash in on the life insurance.
He didn't end up increasing the policy though because he was allegedly told that the policy would not be paid if anything happened to him within two months of increasing the amount.
Kail: Right.
Kate: So to me, I feel like
if he did all this so his son could get the life insurance policy,
why not just wait a few months after you increase the amount
so that your son could get more money?
Also, I couldn't find anywhere if his son did receive the money from the life insurance.
I mean, there are laws in place where there has to be, like, some sort of proof - a death certificate or something - so I'm not sure where things landed with that.
Kail: Oh, I just have a quick question. Well, two, actually.
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: The first one: has Olivia Newton-John made any interviews or any more statements regarding this case?
And also, the son, Chance - Chance, right?
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: ...is, you know, a grown adult now at this point.
Kate: Yep.
Kail: ...if he was 13 in 2005, so has he made any commentary on anything?
Kate: I couldn't find any statement from Chance. I looked pretty deep but I couldn't find anything.
Kail: Ok.
Olivia...the most that she has said is that, you know, (because there are a couple of interviews with her),
she declines a lot of interviews about it, or I should say she declined at the time.
But she has basically said, you know, 'we wish we knew what happened, we are heartbroken.
We want answers.' I mean, that kind of thing.
Kail: Right, okay.
Kate: So it was also reported in these doc - in these Coast Guard documents -
that, again, these gossip magazines allegedly obtained,
that Patrick had searched online about how to obtain a fake ID,
and that shortly before his disappearance he wiped his computer clean of searches, emails, everything.
The Coast Guard also stated that Tobar -
he was the fisherman who said he remembered seeing Patrick come up to the galley and then go to the bathroom, and then go back down -
it was determined the man Tobar claimed was Patrick was actually a different passenger.
Now, Olivia Newton-John said that in the nine years she knew him,
he had never threatened to hurt himself,
he didn't seem to have any social problems, and she was not aware of any reason that would make him want to disappear.
She was also unaware of his financial struggles though, so it seems maybe she missed a few things.
Kail: Mmm.
Kate: Another friend of Patrick's, Elaine Lampert,
gave an interview to MSNBC and said that Patrick 'was a really happy-go-lucky guy,'
that he 'absolutely loved his son and he was really devoted to him.'
And they were in a group that all played tennis together,
and she said he 'was a good tennis player, he seemed really happy,' and she just can't imagine that he would ever abandon his son.
Now Philip Klein, the P.I. who was all, "I gotta hunt him, and when I'm on the hunt, I'm hunting. I gotta hunt him down."
He came out in 2009 and said, "Everybody, everybody I just got a fax.
Patrick is totally alive but he doesn't want to be bothered."
Kail: What?
Kate: And people were like, "Cool, what did Patrick say?"
And Klein said, "Oh, the fax actually isn't from Patrick, it's from a representative for Patrick going by the name Cacma D.
Kail: Oh, jesus. Cacma D.
Kail: Mayo, Tobar...what kind of shit is this?
Kate: I can't.
Kate: The fax reads: "Pat asked that I portray to you his innocence in the crimes you have accused him of.
Pat has committed no crime,
he simply has gone to a new life without the hassles of California or the spotlight to which he lived for years.
Pat has no ill will to anyone.
Pat simply wishes to be left alone.
If you continue this madness that you have created by your accusations,
Pat will hold you accountable for your actions.
He is safe and has started anew again in a new place, both mentally and personally.
Please be a friend."
So that was the fax.
Kail: The end is "please be a friend?"
Kate: Yeah.
Kail: You know what? Every email from here on out..."please be a friend."
Kate: Klein never could provide any video or photographic evidence that Patrick is still alive.
Hold on, sorry, I kind of burped when I said that. (they both laugh)
Kail: It's because of it's the beer!
Kate: It is. Thank you, Bell's Oberon.
Kate: Klein never could provide any video or photographic evidence that Patrick is still alive.
However, in 2012, he did self-publish a book about the case called Lost at Sea.
I'm not going to link it.
I haven't read it, and Yvette, Patrick's ex-wife, said that there was nothing credible about it, and she actually wrote to Jeff Bezos and asked him to stop selling it on Amazon.
Kail: Ooh.
Kate: Which I guess must have worked because if you try to look it up on there it says it's out of print.
Kail: Wow. I would like to have...I just want a discounted Amazon Prime membership as an educator.
Kate: Wait, you don't get that?
Kail: No. I pay full price.
Kate: Educators don't get a disc -
Kail: No.
Kate: Oh my god, what the fuck?
Kail: Ugh.
Kate: Yvette is working on her own book about this whole ordeal.
After Patrick disappeared, she and Olivia became good friends
and really bonded over what they had been through, which is really nice.
Kail: Mm hmm. Please be a friend.
Kate: Yeah, and they are to each other.
And I think Olivia is also helping with the book,
and whenever we get news that it's coming out we'll let you know.
Now, all three private investigators,
Nick Papps, that Australian journalist, and Frank Liversedge,
all firmly believe that Patrick walked off the boat and is living a new life in Mexico working on a yacht somewhere.
The Coast Guard believes he was lost at sea.
What do you think?
Kail: Did they make a death record?
Kate: I couldn't find a death certificate, but I imagine if the life insurance policy was paid out they would have had to have come up with something.
Kail: Right, right, right.
Kate: I mean, this is seventeen years ago, so -
Kail: Geez, um, time flies.
Kail: What do I think? I mean, listen,
I'd like to think that there's some fish tacos being eaten, and
I can only hope that Patrick McDermott is eating them.
Kate: My theory? I think homeboy dipped, literally and figuratively.
Kail: Oh shit.
Kate: I think he took a look at his financial struggles, his relationships, and was like, "Nah, I'm out."
Kail: Okay.
Kate: And I think he waited until all the passengers were asleep
then intentionally went overboard and died by suicide.
And I think someone from the boat company marked that his tab had been paid.
Because, remember, a passenger said that the crew called his name over the loudspeaker several times to pay his tab.
Kail: Right.
And Gil Martinez - (clears throat) - Gil Martinez, who was on Klein's investigative team
said there were times when it would have been possible to go over the side of the boat unnoticed.
And Frank Liversedge, the dock manager,
made a statement about how in 45 years they'd never lost a passenger,
and I think the company didn't want this mark on their record that a passenger died on their watch.
Unfortunately, Frank Liversedge passed away in 2008 from cancer, so he's no longer around to be questioned.
I think the reason the three P.I.s say they believe Patrick is hiding out in Mexico and wants to be left alone is because they're all butthurt that they couldn't find him.
Kail: Mm hmm.
Kate: And the fax? I think Klein wrote it himself as his way out without having to admit that he couldn't find him,
because the fax was saying 'leave Pat alone or you'll pay,' basically.
So Klein could be like, "Okay, he's alive, but I'm being threatened if I keep this up, so everyone drop it."
And I think Nick Papps, the Australian journalist,
says Patrick's alive because he's an Australian, he has a lot of interest in the case, and a Patrick citing comes up pretty much every year and the story sells papers.
And I'm not making any accusations here, this is allegedly, this is just my opinion, this is no one else's opinion,
I think Frank Liversedge said he walked off the boat because he's trying to cover everyone's ass at the boat company, including the crew.
Kail: Ah, do you think there was any foul play?
Kate: No.
Kail: Or do you think strictly suicide?
Kate: I think he died by suicide.
Kail: Mmm.
Kate: 'Cause another thing - the galley tab only had the hot dogs and coke.
It did not have any fish cleaning services on it.
He didn't have any fish.
Kail: I just like to hold out hope for hope, you know? And was kind of hoping he was munching on some good fish tacos, and -
Kate: I mean, maybe he's munching on those fish tacos in the sky.
Kail: Okay.
Kate: I don't know.
Kate: I don't know, I mean, that's the thing, like,
it's still unsolved but it's closed, but it's...no one knows where he is.
Kail: I think it's because I felt like some of the, you know, operators were a little fishy.
Kate: Was that a pun, Kail?
Kail: It was a poor pun, but nonetheless.
Because, like, things were just not accounted for, and so I feel like either there was a slip
or somebody was covering for somebody, because they didn't...they wanted to have their record, you know, clean.
But, I don't know it was either, to me it was either, like, some sort of foul play -
Kate: But what would be the motive for that?
Kail: Um, something accidental.
Kate: Accidental foul play?
Kail: Yeah. Well, okay, that didn't make any sense.
Kate: I was like, 'that's a whole new category!'
Kail: I mean, yeah.
Kail: What I meant, I guess, was maybe there was an accident and they're covering it up, or
there was somebody on the boat that had a rift with him or something and that created some foul play and he was thrown overboard.
Kate: I feel like if that had happened,
Kail: I don't know, there's just, there's just so many loose ends.
Kate: I mean, there are, that's the thing, but I feel like if if someone on the boat had thrown him overboard,
other passengers would have heard that, and not all of them are going to cover for this stranger. They were all strangers,
you know, they didn't know each other,
so I don't think that they would be covering up a murder for no reason.
Kail: That's true, that's true. Well, that's why I was saying maybe it was some kind of weird accident.
Kail: But yeah, you're right, I mean, there's...there's got to be some sound play there, so
you would hear a splash or something, but -
Kate: Yeah, I think when everyone went to sleep,
I mean, because there would only be - I don't think all five crew members would be awake.
Kail: Right.
Kate: They probably would have just a couple awake, so -
Kail: Like one or two, yeah.
Kate: I think he was able to just go around to the side and peace out.
Kail: Wow.
Kate: Allegedly, I'm just saying.
Kail: Yeah.
Kate: Things I always think about in these types of cases though, like,
did they have a funeral?
And like, who, I mean, who cleaned out his home? Someone had to.
Did Yvette have to go over there and clean out all his stuff? Or Olivia?
Kail: Yeah, I would think that, yeah, probably Yvette,
only because that's his offspring. She has his offspring.
Kate: I mean, I just can't even...I don't know, I can't even imagine that. And the thing I think about, well,
the woman who bought the place that he was living in, after he disappeared
she continued to get his mail for months and months.
Kail: Ah, that's kind of creepy.
Kate: Yeah.
So we were talking about his son who, yes, is an adult now.
I won't go too much into it because
he was a kid at the time and I'm sure he'd like to put this all behind him,
and especially because he hasn't made statements that I could find tells me he doesn't want to be, you know, the subject of some article or podcast.
I will just say that he appears to be super talented and thriving.
It seems like he's doing really well. I was able to dig up some stuff on him.
So that's, I mean, that's good at least. Kaili, I'm going to send you - you know what? I'm going to send you a picture of him right now because he is...
he's pretty.
Kail: Well his dad was a looker, right?
Kate: Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. He had beautiful, beautiful parents.
Kail: Oh, hello.
Kate: Yeah, he's doing alright, he's doing alright.
Kail: The age, yeah he's a little youngen, but, you know.
Kate: You like 'em young.
Kail: I...that sounds terrible. Um... (Kate laughs)
I like them slightly younger than me, only because, well one - my age -
and two - I have a lot of energy
and I have dated men older than me, and frankly, they're kind of duds.
Kate: That makes sense. I mean, I like older but that's just my personal taste.
Kail: Right? Everybody's got their preference, right? And I just yeah, that's...I'm, I'm youthful and so I prefer a youthful beau, and
yeah, that's that.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Do you, do you have any, um, a little palate cleanser thingy?
Kail: You know, I thought I had a palate cleanser and then it slipped my mind literally fifteen minutes ago, no joke.
I was, I think I got so intrigued. First of all, the giggle fit really got me distracted.
Kate: I understand.
Kail: Once you started, once you started laughing then I started laughing and then...
wait, can you try, can you try the quote that you couldn't get through?
Kate: Okay, let me...I have to go back to it, let me find it.
Kai: I'm gonna have a very...first of all, it's really dark in this room because I didn't - it was light out when we started this.
Kate: It's really hot in here. My pits are so sweaty.
Let me find this quote here.
Here we go, I'm gonna try the quote again. I'm gonna be, like, totally serious.
This is Klein:
Kail: Okay.
Kate: I'm kind of...hold on, starting over, starting over.
This is Klein: "I'm kind of frustrated right now,
because you know it's always when you're on the hunt, and you're hunting people, (begins to laugh)
it's always very frustrating when you go on the hunt and you don't get your game!
Oh my god. I got through it that time.
He's, like, terrifying but also so ridiculous that you just can't take him seriously.
Kail: Oh yeah, he definitely had...he had something going there for him.
Kate: Oh boy.
Kail: Yeah, please be a friend.
Kate: Please be a friend.
Kate: Tell us what you think happened, because we don't know. I mean, we're just giving our theories here, we're not accusing anybody.
Kail: Unlike Marilyn, I'm very undecided right now.
I mean, you made a good point but I... I don't know. There's something about me that kind of just wants there to be a good ending, and to me a good ending would be he is still alive.
I don't feel like, you know, I don't feel like he is some sort of villain in this story, even if he had the financial troubles. People...I mean, it's a hard world out there.
Kate: And that's another thing is that he still owes all this money.
So if he is in Mexico he needs to be found because he owes money.
Kail: Right, but that's why he may not want to be found.
Kate: I mean, I'm with you, like, obviously we always want a happy ending,
and I would also love it if he had not chosen two hot dogs and a coke as his last meal.
I think, you know, that would be great, but (whispers) it's not what I think.
Kail: What do you think Klein would want as a - that's my palate cleanser.
Let's determine what Klein would want for his last meal.
Kate: I think Klein would go for a steak, obviously.
Like a T-bone, like a New York strip
hearty steak, baked potato, mid rare or rare, like dripping blood.
I feel like, I feel like that's Klein. And a bourbon.
Kail: Oh yeah, okay, I will agree with you on the bourbon,
but I would like to change the meat arrangement,
and I would like to say he'd go for a big old pork chop.
Kate: I don't see him going for a pork chop but, you know what? He could, he could.
Kail: Again, I will let everyone know I don't really know meat well.
Kate: You don't eat meat.
So I'm gonna tell right now, Klein's not going for a pork chop.
Kail: Oh, okay. I think it's a funny word though.
Kate: It is a funny word.
Kail: Okay, so he's not going for a pork chop.
Kate: No, he's going for the New York strip, just telling you right now.
We want to know what you think. Do you think that Patrick is alive?
Do you think that he dipped and peaced out of this life? Do you think someone killed him? Tell us.
Comment. Give us...email us. Do all the things @horrorwoodpodcast,or horrorwoodpocast@gmail.com.
Or on the Twitter @hor- pod. @horrorwoodpod. I think I cut out there so I said it again.
Kail: @horrorwoodpod.
Kate: And if you're feeling so inclined, we'd love it if you would rate and review us on iTunes. It actually helps us out a lot, so
if you're feeling it, that would be awesome and we would love that.
Kail: Additionally, if you would like to just talk to us, we're here. Please be a friend.
Kate: Are we though? Are we just, like, always on, waiting for some - like a caller -
"Hello Caller, you're on the air."
Kail: I wish,
Kail: because I think it would be fascinating to be like,
Kate: That would be amazing.
Kail: Sleepless in Seattle or something, you know? Hello, Caller.
Kate: Maybe we'll do that.
Kate: Maybe we'll do, like, a call-in guest at some point. We should have a guest at some point.
Kail: We should.
Kate: Maybe it'll be Patrick McDermott.
Kail: Oh my god.
Kate: (whispers) But probably not.
Kail: If it is him -
Kate: (whispers) It's not him.
Kail: Okay.
Kail: Anyway,
Kate: Thanks for listening, everybody!
(creepy music begins to play underneath)
Kate: Bye! Stay zesty.
Kail: Stay zesty. Here's to being a misfit. Byeee!
Kate: (whispers) He went overboard.
Kail: Zesty.
(creepy music continues playing)
(creepy music fades out)